12.d. Second Reading of Ordinance D-2848-26; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Establishing the Appropriations for the 2027 Budget; Sponsors: Councilors Snyder and Taylor. Held at the dais at October 5, 2026 Council meeting.

[12.d. Second Reading of Ordinance D-2848-26; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Establishing the Appropriations for the 2027 Budget; Sponsors: Councilors Snyder and Taylor. Held at the dais at October 5, 2026 Council meeting.]

THE COMMON COUNCIL ESTABLISHING PROPOSE RELATIONS FOR THE 2027 BUDGET SPONSORS TAYLOR AND SNYDER.

WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO ACT? >> MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF D-AS

PRESENTED. >> RESOLUTION, CC-10-05-2602, TO

[12.e. Resolution CC-10-05-26-02; A Resolution of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, to Limit the Rate for Taxes Payable in 2027 and Authorize Necessary Temporary Borrowing Among City Funds; Sponsor: Councilor Taylor. Sent to the Finance, Utilities and Rules Committee. (Meeting date 10/19/26)]

HIM AT THIS TIME RATE FOR TAXES PAYABLE IN 2027 AND AUTHORIZED TEMPORARY BORROWING AMONG CITY FUNDS, SPONSORS COUNCILOR

TAYLOR. >> MOVE FOR APPROVAL.

>> MOVE FOR APPROVAL. >> DO YOU HAVE A COMMENT?

>> I'M SORRY. >> I DO HAVE ONE.

>> GO FOR IT. >> MOTION AND SECONDED.

WHAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT AND THE MAYOR HILTON THIS IS THAT KEEPING OUR TAX RATE FLAT WITH THE INCREASE'S DUBSKIES THAT WE HAVE HAD OTHER COMMUNITIES ARE INCREASING THEIR TAX RATE IN HAMILTON COUNTY SO I APPLAUD THIS COUNCIL ZACK JACKSON THE MAYOR AND THE ADMINISTRATION FOR PRESENTING THE BUDGET THAT IS EAST TO APPROVE AND KEEP MAINTAINING OUR TAX RATE, SO

THANK YOU. >> MR. PRESIDENT.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY EARLIER BUT I DIDN'T WANT TO SAY ANYTHING AFTER THAT. THE BUDGET YOU PRESENTED REALLY HERE IS NOT ONLY I THINK IT'S A SIGH OF RELIEF FOR OUR COMMUNITY AND IT'S AMAZING THAT WE HAVE A BUDGET THAT KEEPS OUR TAX RATE FLAT AND AT THE SAME TIME WE ARE PRESERVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE THINGS THAT ARE REALLY IMP IMPORTANT, THE ARTS BUDGET, THE GRANTS, THE CENTER FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS WE ARE STILL FULLY FUNDING THOSE, WE ARE CONTINUING TO INCREASE OUR STREET FUNDING TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT AND TO KEEP OUR TAX RATE FLAT WHEN GOING INTO THIS BUDGET A YEAR AGO WE HEARD HOW TERRIBLE IT WAS GOING TO BE AND IT STILL IS PRETTY BAD FOR COMMUNITIES AROUND THE STATE IS A TRUE TESTAMENT TO YOUR STAFF, ZAC JACKSON MEETING WITH HIM HEARING THE WAYS THEY FIGURED OUT TO PRESERVE THIS BUDGET, I MEAN, I'M JUST BLOWN AWAY BY IT, SO THANK YOU SO MUCH. I HAD THINK A LOT OF US WANTED US TO PRESERVE WHAT WE LOVE ABOUT CARMEL AND FOR YOU TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS WHILE KEEPING OUR TAX RATE THE SAME IS JUST AMAZING. SEWING THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU AND I BROUGHT THIS POINT UP AT FINANCE MEETING THIS AFTERNOON, AND IT'S A SUBTLE POINT BUT ONE THAT I WANT TO MAKE. THE MANY YEARS WE HAVE KEPT THE RATE, THE TAX RATE THE SAME, BUT WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD INCREASING OR CLIMBING ASSESSED VALUE, SO THIS YEAR MAYBE THE ONLY TIME IN HISTORY WE ARE MAINTAINING A FLAT RATE RECEIVING LESS MONEY.

[00:35:03]

THERE'S NO BENEFIT OF ASSESSED VALUE AND YOU MADE IT WORK.

SO FOR ALL THE EMAILS THAT I'VE RECEIVED OVER THE YEARS, YEAH YOU HELD THE RATE THE SAME BUT THE ASSESSED VALUE WENT UP SO YOU GOT MORE MONEY, I WANTED TO MAKE THAT POINT BECAUSE I NEVER THOUGHT I'D LIVE TO SEE THE DAY AND SO THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT.

>> IF THIS IS GOING TO BE OUR COMMENTS ON THE BUDGET YOU KNOW, I DON'T LIKE IT, BECAUSE I'VE SAID BEFORE, YOU KNOW, A GOOD COMPROMISE, EVERYBODY LOSES, YOU LOST, WE LOST, AND FROM A GENERAL, I DON'T LIKE IT BECAUSE THERE'S NOT EVERYTHING IN IT THAT I THINK SHOULD BE IN IT. AND WE HAVE DEBATED WHAT IS IN IT, BUT I THINK JEFF HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD, BECAUSE WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD MORE MONEY SO IT'S EASY TO PLAY THE GAME HOLDING THE TAX GAME FLAT. WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY.

SO NOBODY SHOULD LOVE THE BUDGET FRANKLY BUT WE GOT THERE, AND THERE'S A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH AND A LOT OF GIVE AND TAKE, AND WE GOT THERE. SO, I'M NOT GOING TO -- I WILL NOT SAY I LIKE THIS BUDGET AT ALL BUT IT'S NOT THE MAYOR'S FAULT IT'S NOT ZAC'S FAULT IT'S NOT OUR FAULT CIRCUMSTANCES AND THE HAND WE HAVE BEEN DEALT WITH BY THE STATE A AGAIN, I NEVER THOUGHT THAT WOULD HAPPEN IN CARMEL AND THE FACT THAT WE ARE HERE IS STILL MIND BOGGLING TO ME.

WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. >> SECOND READING OF ORDINANCE

[12.f. Second Reading of Ordinance D-2849-26; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Fixing Salaries of Appointed Officers and Employees of the Carmel City Court for the Year 2027; Sponsors: Councilors Snyder and Taylor. Held at the dais at October 5, 2026 Council meeting.]

>> MOVE FOR APPROVAL AS PRESENTED.

[12.g. Second Reading of Ordinance D-2850-26; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Fixing Salaries of Appointed Deputies and Employees of the Carmel City Clerk for the Year 2027; Sponsors: Councilors Minnaar, Snyder, Taylor and Worrell. Held at the dais at October 5, 2026 Council meeting.]

>> SECOND READING OF ORDINANCE D- D-2850-2026 ORDINANCE COMMON COUNCIL FINDING SALARIES OF

POISONED DEPUTIES CITY CLERKS. >> MOVE FOR APPROVAL AS

PRESENTED. >> SECOND.

[12.h. Second Reading of Ordinance D-2851-26; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Fixing Salaries of Appointed Officers and Employees of the City of Carmel, Indiana, for the Year 2027; Sponsors: Councilors Snyder and Taylor. Held at the dais at October 5, 2026 Council meeting.]

>> SECOND READING OF ORDINANCE D- D-2851-2026, FIXING SALARIES OF APPOINTED OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES OF CITY OF CARMEL INDIANA FOR YEAR 2027 RESPONSE SOARS SN

SNYDER -- ME AND RICH. >> MOVE FOR APPROVAL AS

PRESENTED. >> SECOND READING ORDINANCE,

[12.i. Second Reading of Ordinance D-2852-26; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Fixing Salaries of Elected Officials of the City of Carmel, Indiana, for the Year 2027; Sponsors: Councilors Snyder and Taylor. Held at the dais at October 5, 2026 Council meeting.]

SALARIES OF ELECTED OFFICIALS, CITY OF CARMEL, INDIANA, FOR THE YEAR 2027 SPONSORS SNYDER AND TAYLOR.

>> MOVE FOR APPROVAL AS PRESENTED.

>> CITY OF CARMEL WILL BE SOLVENT NEXT YEAR.

I AM GOING TO TURN THE MEETING OVER TO VICE PRESIDENT, WHO IS HERE. WHILE MY FAMILY LEFT, AND I'M GOING TO CATCH A FLIGHT TO GO SEE MY FAMILY.

I WANTED TO BE HERE FOR THE BUDGET.

I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS WE DO.

I'M SO GLAD I WAS HERE, I'M SO GLAD JEFF THAT I WAS HERE.

[10. COMMITTEE REPORTS]

>> MOVING BACK TO THE POINT IN THE AGENDA WHERE WE MOVED THOSE ITEMS, COMMITTEE REPORTS, START WITH THE FINANCE COMMITTEE.

COUNCILOR TAYLOR. >> FINANCE COMMITTEE MET WE REVIEWED RESOLUTION MAINTAINING OUR TAX RATE AT .7783 ALLOWING FOR BORROWING OF FUNDS IN THE INTERIM AND DIRECTING DLGF ON HOW TO LEVY OUR FUNDS IF THE MATH IS WRONG BUT IT WILL KEEP THE RATE AT .7783 THAT RESOLUTION PASS I BY THE COUNCIL

[00:40:03]

WAS PASSED BY THE FINANCE COMMITTEE TODAY AT 3 P.M.

POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION NEXT ITEM ORND D-2772-25 RELATED TO BEEN ON OUR AGENDA FOR MANY MONTHS NOW, ORDINANCE ADOPTING REQUIREMENTS FOR NAUCHT ORGANIZATIONS RECEIVNG PUBLIC SUPPORT FROM THE CITY THE FINANCE COMMITTEE REVIEWED THAT THIS AFTERNOON AND DISCUSSIONS WITH CORPORATION COUNCIL COUNSEL AND RETURNS WITH UNANIMOUS NEGATIVE RECOMMENDATION TO THE FULL COUNCIL.

>> THANK YOU UPDATE FROM LAND USE, DR. JOSHI.

>> YES, GOOD EVENING. SO, I WOULD LIKE TO REVIEW OF THE SOME OF THE CHANGES WE DID MAKE FOR THE ORDINANCE FOR MICROMOBILITY SINCE THAT WAS THE MAJOR CONVERSATION WE HAD OUGHT OUR MEETING. I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE FACT THAT THERE WERE SOME ISSUES UPDATING THE PUBLIC FACING INFORMATION PROCESS THAT OCCURRED WITH UPDATING THE VIDEO FROM THE MEETING AND ALSO, SENDING OUT A RED LINE BULLETIN SO I THINK WE CAN REVIEW, AND I WOULD BE FINE WITHHOLDING THIS AT THE DAIS AS WE GIVE PEOPLE A CHANCE TO REVIEW, BUT I STILL WOULD LIKE TO GO OVER SOME BASIC CHANGES.

THE MINOR COSMETIC CHANGES THAT WE MADE ARE NOT GOING TO REVIEW BUT THERE WERE ALSO CLARITY OCCASION WHERE WE ADDED EXAMPLE OF MICROMOBILITY DEVICES AND THAT E-MOTO WE DELEAD THE LINE ON THE SECOND PAGE OPERATOR PROCEEDING LESS THAN SPEED OF TRAFFIC SHALL PULL OVER ALLOWING TRAFFIC TO PASS BECAUSE WE REQUIRE RIDERS TO OBEY TRAFFIC LAWS AND BE SO THOSE RESPONSIBILITY ON THOSE MOTORISTS AS WELL, SO THERE IS YOU KNOW THE DESIRE TO HAVE SWITCH THAT OVER FROM LANGUAGE.

WE ALSO HAD MADE CHANGES ON LINE 102 REORGANIZING CLARIFYING THE MONON BOULEVARD MIDTOWN KNOWN AS THE DISMOUNT ZONE I WANTED PEOPLE TO UNDERSTOOD WE ARE ENCOURAGING TO EXERCISE CAUTION REDUCE SPEED OR DISMOUNT IN PEDESTRIAN ZONES THAT LACK DESIGNATED BICYCLE LANES SO WE HAVE NO BICYCLE LANES AT ALL THAEKSIES SO WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE SURE WE ARE NOT TELLING EVERYBODY THEY NEED TO DISMOUNT BUT IN FACT WE NEED TO INSURE THAT PEOPLE OPERATE THESE VEHICLES IN THOSE LOCATIONS SAFELY AND THEN WE ALSO MODIFIED A THREE FEET GUIDANCE BECAUSE IT'S NOT A STRICT REQUIREMENT. WE WANT TO INSURE THAT BIKES ARE PASSING PEDESTRIANS AT SAFE DISTANCE WHERE POSSIBLE AND WE ALSO MODIFIED SPECIFYING THAT HELMETS NEEDED LINE 195 PAGE 4 HELMETS NEEDED TO MEET CRASH SPEED SPECIFICATIONS FOR THE TYPE OF DEVICE THAT THEY'RE OPERATING SO IT'S NOT THAT YOU CAN WEAR A BICYCLE HELMET TO RIDE A MOTORCYCLE, CLEARLY THAT'S NOT APPROPRIATE. WE ALSO MADE SOME MODIFICATIONS, RIDING PROHIBITIONSES THAT APPLY TO SIDEWALKS PADS GREEN SPACE SO NO STREETS AND THAT THIS WE FELT DID NOT PROHIBIT GROUP RIDING THERE, WAS A QUESTION ABOUT GROUP RIDING SAYING THAT OPERATORS SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO RIDE IN GROUPS OF THREE.

WE MADE IT CLEAR LANGUAGE SO WE COULD UNDERSTAND WE CANNOT WANT THEM TO RIDE IN SUCH A WAY THAT WOULD ON INSTRUCT BLOCK OR IMPEDE THE SAFE MOVEMENT OF PEDESTRIANS SO THOSE WERE THE MAJOR CHANGES TO BE MICROMOBILITY.

I THINK THERE ARE STILL CONVERSATIONS ON GOING AND I DO THINK THAT THIS IS AS YOU HAVE SEEN, A COMPLEX ORDINANCE THAT HAS A LOT OF PEOPLE AT STAKE, PEDESTRIANS CYCLISTS E-MOTO DEVICE RIDERS, I'M SORRY AND OUR GENERAL POPULATION AND HOW THAT AFFECTS EVERYONE. SO JUST A UPDATE ON THAT ORDINANCE. RYAN, I KNOW YOU HAD SOME THINGS YOU WANTED TO ADD FROM THAT MEETING SO I'M GOING TO ASK YOU.

>> YEAH, WHEN WE GET TO THAT ACTION ITEM WE WILL HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE DISCUSSION WHEN WE GET TO THAT ON THE DAIS HERE BUT I THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO HOLD IT BASED ON THE PUBLIC NOT

[11.i. Carmel Environmental Stewardship Committee (Quarterly – March, June, September, December)]

HAVING ACCESS TO THE DOCUMENTS FOR TONIGHT.

SO THANK YOU COUNCILORS WE MOVE TO ACTION ITEM 11 WHICH IS OTHER REPORTS, THE FIRST ONE ON OUR AGENDA THIS EVENING THE CARMEL ENVIRONMENTAL STEWARDSHIP COMMITTEE.

UPDATE ON THE AGENDA THE COMMITTEE WILL BE HELD TONIGHT DUE TO THE COMMITTEE NOT BEING PRESENT TO PRESENT.

[00:45:08]

>> THANK YOU ALL. THANKS FOR HAVING ME AGAIN AS USUAL. REALLY JUST QUICK DATE WE HAVE ONLY HAD ONE MEETING OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL STEWARDSHIP COMMITTEE SENSE LAST TIME WAYS HERE SO JUST QUICK UPDATE FROM THE LAST MEETING WE HAD, THE MAIN ACTION ITEM THAT WE CAME OUT OF THAT MEETING WITH WAS CREATE TWOK SUBCOMMITTEES TO LOOK AT TWO DIFFERENT AREAS, ONE BEING I MENTIONED AT MY LAST UPDATE THAT WE ADDED ONE OF THE INITIATIVES IS A ZERO WASTE EVENT POLICY, SO, WE ARE CREATING A SUBCOMMITTEE TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT TO DO SOME RESEARCH, LOOK AT OUR COMMUNITIES THAT MAYBE HAVE A ZERO WASTE POLICY, LOOK AT THEIR POLICY SEE IF THERE IS ANYTHING WE CAN START TO MIRROR OR DRAFT UP AND SEE WHAT WE CAN MODEL OFF OF, SO WE'VE A SUBCOMMITTEE THAT'S GOING TO BE WORKING ON THAT AS WELL AS LOOKING AT DOING A SUSTAINABILITY FAIR, WITH AT THE CARMEL MAIN LIBRARY, HOPING THAT THEY WILL HOST IT FOR US, SO LOOKING AT CREATING A COMMITTEE TO KIND OF LOOK TO SEE IF WE CAN CREATE THAT EVENT, BUT THEN WE CAN BRING IN SOME PARTNERS TO EDUCATE SUSTAINABILITY AND PRACTICES THAT THE COMMUNITY CAN LEARN ABOUT TO HELP WITH THE EDUCATION COMPONENT OF THE FINANCIAL PLAN.

SO THOSE ARE THE MAIN UPDATE FOR YOU.

HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. >> ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE COUNCIL? ALL RIGHT.

OH. >> JUST WANT TO MAKE ONE COMMENT. KIND OF TOUGH QUESTIONS IN THE PAST ABOUT THIS COMMITTEE WORKING, I'VE BEEN VERY IMPRESSED RECENTLY WITH THE DIRECTION OF THE COMMITTEE AND GETTING THINGS DOWN SO WANT TO GIVE THOSE KUDOS.

APPRECIATE IT. >> THANK YOU, SIR.

>> THANK YOU. >> AND QUICK PROCEDURAL UPDATE IN THE MIDDLE HERE GOT A NOTE WE HAVE AN ACTION WE NEED TO BRING THAT AROUND, I'LL DO THAT IN OTHER BUSINESS NUMBER 16 FOR

[11.k. Center for the Performing Arts Update]

MEASUREMENT ON SALY ORDINANCES. UP NEXT IS ON THE OTHER BUSINESS WE HAVE A REPORT FROM THE CENTER FOR PERFORMING ARTS.

>> ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE TECH SUPPORT.

I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE WITH YOU.

I'M JEFF MCDERMOTT. I SERVE AS THE PRESIDENT AND CEO AT THE SOLUTION TEN PER FOR PERFORMING AROUND AND THE GREAT AMERICAN SONG FOUNDATION. I WANT TO JUMP IN WITH THANK YOU ON BEHALF OF THOSE TWO ORGANIZATIONS AND OUR RESIDENT COMPANIES BUT EVEN BEFORE DO I THAT I WANT TO RECOGNIE LUCY SNYDER AND CONGRATULATE YOU LUCY ON GREAT RECOGNITION FOR YOU AND ALSO A BIG THANK YOU TO JEFF WORRELL.

BOTH OF YOU HAVE BEEN AVID SUPPORTERS OF THE ARTS FOR MANY MANY YEARS, IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S BECOME A BRAND THIS MUCH COMMUNITY AND BUT FOR YOU AND LEADERSHIP AND SO MANY OTHERS WE WOULD NOT HAVE THE CENTER FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS OR MANY OF THE OTHER GREAT CULTURAL FACILITIES WE HAVE IN THIS CITY SO WE ARE VERY FORTUNATE YOU'VE BEEN AT THE HELM AND WE ARE GOING TO MISS YOU ON THIS COUNCIL BUT I KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO GREAT THINGS FOR THE COMMUNITY.

ALWAYS I SAID I WANT TO THANK YOU ON BEHALF OF ALL OUR ORGANIZATIONS AND I'M GOING TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THREE THINGS AND I'LL TRY TO KEEP MY COMMENT BRIEF AS POSSIBLE.

SOMEWHAT WHAT A TALKED ABOUT LAST THE ECONOMIC CULTURAL IMPACT AND CALL IF I OF SERVICES WE ARE PROVIDING IN TERMS OF OUR MANAGEMENT OF THE SOLUTION CENTER FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT OUR 16TH SEASON AND GREAT THINGS HAPPENING ON CAMPUS AND FINALLY WRAP UP A LITTLE BIT WITH SOME OF THE CHALLENGES THAT WE ARE HAVING AND IN PARTICULAR, HAVING DURING THE HOLIDAY SEASON AND WHEN I SAY WE, I MEAN THAT COLLECTIVELY AS A COMMUNITY, CHALLENGES WITH JUST A LOT OF ACTIVITY ON CAMPUS AND SOME OF THE DIFFICULTIES THAT CREATES FOR MANY PEOPLE. LET ME START FIRST WITH DISCUSSION POLITICAL BIT ABOUT ECONOMIC IMPACT AND I DISCUSS THIS WITH YOU LAST YEAR SO I'LL GO THROUGH IT QUICKLY AS YOU'LL RECALL LAST YEAR WE COMMISSIONED THE INDIANA BUSINESS RESEARCH CENTER OUT OF THE KELLY SCHOOL OF BUSINESS AT INDIANA UNIVERSITY TO DO AN ECONOMIC IMPACT BEHALF THIS CAMPUS ACTUALLY MEANS TO THIS CITY, AND THE COUNTY ECONOMICALLY, AND THEY DID AN EXHAUSTIVE STUDIED AND LETTES KNOW THAT WE GENERATE

[00:50:03]

AS A CAMPUS NEARLY $23 MILLION OF ECONOMIC IMPACT FOR CARMEL THE, WITH HAMILTON IT'S DR. 24.7 HIM AND GENERATE ALL N NON-APOSTROPHE ORGANIZATIONS BUT THE WORK WE DO THE PEOPLE WE EMPLOY GENERATE LOCAL AND STATE TAX REVENUE OF NEARLY FOUR MILLION DOLLARS SO IT DOES HAVE GREAT ECONOMIC IMPACT.

WE ARE PROUD OF THAT IT ALSO HAS GREAT CULTURAL IMPACT AS YOU KNOW AND I POINT OUT HOW ROUTINELY CARMEL IS RECOGNIZED IN MOOM PERIODICALS AS A BEST PLACE TO WORK LIVE RETIRE AND RAISE A FAMILY. THE THINGS THAT ARE ALWAYS COMMENTED ON ALMOST 100 PERCENT OF THE TIME OUTSTANDING SCHOOLS OUTSTANDING PUBLIC SAFETY OUR TREMENDOUS PARKS OUR COMMIT TO THE ARTS AND THE THINGS THAT HAPPEN AT THE ALLIED SOLUTION CENTER SO WE ARE VERY PROUD OF THAT AND TO BE PART OF A GREAT COMMUNITY. IBLES WANT TO GIVE ME THANKS TO THE ADMINISTRATION AND TO THIS COUNCIL FOR THE BUDGET THAT YOU HAVE PASSED AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT THIS YEAR THAT INCLUDED A RESTORATION OF THE MANAGEMENT FEE TO THE ALLIED SOLUTION CENTER THAT WAS REDUCED LAST YEAR BY 100,000, YOU'VE RESTORED THAT TO $2 TONIGHT 25 MILLIONCHY GREATLY APPRECIATE AND AS I'M GOING TO EXPLAIN WHAT SOME OF THE IMPACT OF THAT FUNDING IS OF THOSEING IN THE, THE MANAGEMENT FEE THAT YOU PAY FOR OUR MANAGEMENT SERVICES. LAST YEAR YOU'LL RECALL THAT WE COMMISSIONED A HUNDRED PARTNERS OUT OF CHICAGO AN ORGANIZATION I KNOW YOU'RE WELL FAMILIAR WITH BECAUSE THE CITY OF CARMEL HAS USED HUNTING PARTNERS ON A COUPLE OF OCCASIONS AND WE ASK THEM TO UNDERSTAND THE VALUE THAT WE BRING AS THE MANAGERS AND THE STEWARDS OF THE ALLIED SOLUTIONS CENTER CAMPUS, AND WHAT THEY LET US KNOW OBVIOUSLY THE CITY PAYS IS A MANAGEMENT FIFA TWO AND A QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS F. THE CITY WERE TO RUN THE ALLIED SOLUTION CENTER ITSELF OR IF IT WERE TO HIRE A FOR-PROFIT COUPLE A LIVE NATION OR ENTITY LIKE THAT TO RUN THE CAMPUS IT WOULD COST THE CITY ON TOP OF THAT MONEY AN ADDITIONAL $600,000 UP TO 2.1 MILLION THAN WE ARE ABLE TO DOES A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION SO WE ARE VERY PROUD OF THE FACT THAT WE ARE DELIVERING VALUE IN SUCH A SIGNIFICANT WAY.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WARE MAYBE MOST PROUD OF THIS REPORT IS THEY LOOKED AT MANY ORGANIZES AND LOOKED AT OUR JOB COMPARED TO OUR PEERS AND INDICATE IN THEIR REPORT WE ARE AT NEAR OPTIMAL EFFICIENCY AND TO MONDAY NICE THAT SAID WE ARE OPERATING AS $581 LESS PER SEAT THAN OUR APPEAR AVERAGE AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOTAL OF 2200 SEATS THAT WE HAVE ON OUR CAMPUS BETWEEN OUR THREE VENUES IT COMES TO $1.3 MILLION MORE EFFICIENT AND OUR PEERS IN THAT SENSE AND SO AGAIN VERY PROUD OF THAT AND WE JUST WANT TO EMPHASIZE TO YOU THAT HOW APPRECIATIVE WE ARE OF THE FAITH YOU HAVE IN US WITH THIS MANAGEMENT FEE THAT'S PAID TO US AND THE VALUE WE BELIEVE WE ARE PROVIDE BACK TO YOU AND IT'S NOW JUST US THAT BELIEVE WE ARE PROVIDING VALLEY SEE, I THINK EVERYBODY IN THIS COMMUNITY KNOWS THAT WE HAVE BEAUTIFUL VENUES, PEOPLE LOVE COMING AND SEEING SHOWS ON THE OUR BEAUTIFUL VENUES.

YOU MOOT NOT HERE OFTEN WHAT THE ARTISTS THING.

THE ARTISTS ALMOST 100 PERCENT COMMENT ON THE BEAUTY OF OUR VENUES AND ALSO COMMENT VERY OFTEN ON OUR ZACH AND HOW THEY'RE TREATED AND PROFESSIONALISM OF OUR STAFF TO THE POINT WHERE PEOPLE SOMETIMES ASK ME DO YOU PUT IN YOUR CONTRACT THEY HAVE TO SAY NICE THINGS, NO, THE ONLY THING WE DO IS ASK THEM TO PRONOUNCE CARMEL CORRECTLY BUT JUST TO GIVE A FEEL FOR WHAT ARTISTS SAY ABOUT OUR VENUES AND STAFF I THOUGHT I WOULD SHOW YOU THIS.

>> WE WALKED IN THEY'RE THIS AFTERNOON.

WE LOOKED AT THIS PLACE AND WENT WHAT A DUMP.

UNBELIEVABLE. IT'S BEAUTIFUL.

>> THIS IS A BEAUTIFUL SOUNDING PLACE AND THIS IS A TREAT.

>> THIS IS A FABULOUS PLACE. I MEAN, FABULOUS.

WE PLAYED IN PLACES ALL OVER THE WORLD, AND THIS RIVALS ANY PLACE

WE HAVE EVER BEEN IN. >> THIS IS THE BIGGEST CHEESECAKE FACTORY I'VE BEEN TO. ABSOLUTELY AMAZING.

>> IN THIS ROOM SOUNDS FANTASTIC.

COMMITMENTS TO THE CHEF. YEAH.

>> THIS THEATER IS WAY TOO NICE FOR ME AND SO I'M JUST GOING TO

[00:55:01]

GO. >> I GOT HERE THIS MORNING I WHO HAD THE I HAD DIED. IT'S LIKE HE HAVEEN? WHAT A BEAUTIFUL PLACE THIS IS. EVERYBODY HAS BEEN SO WONDERFUL.

>> I LOVE THIS RENVIEW. I'VE SAID BEFORE AND WILL SAY IT BEGUN FEELS LIKE A WEDDING CAKE IN HERE.

>> I WAS HOPING IN 2020 I JUST REALLY WANT TO PLAY THAT PLACE

ONE MORE TIME MY FRIENDS. >> IF WE PLAY ANYPLACE AROUND THE COUNTRY THAT'S ANY MORE BEAUTIFUL THAN THIS I CAN'T

THINK OF ONE. >> THIS ROOM IS INSANE.

I MY GOD. THE WAY THIS PLACE IS BUILT IS LIKE A STUDIO. I CAN'T GET OVER THE SOUND IN

THIS ROOM. >> A HIGHLIGHT IN MY MEMORY.

THIS IS SUCH A BEAUTIFUL PLACE. >> THIS IS AN EXTRAORDINARILY BEAUTIFUL AND BEAUTIFUL SOUNDING VENUE TO COME SEE A CONCERT.

>> I LIVE IN L.A. WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING LIKE

THIS. >> WE ARE VERY PROUD OF THAT AND WE ARE ALSO VERY PROUD OF OUR 2026 SEASON.

THIS IS OUR 16TH SEASON AND JUST A FEW THINGS TO TELL YOU ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR SEASON WE HAVE 11 DIFFERENT GENRES OF MUSIC WE ARE PRESENTING THIS SEASON ONE IS OR SPOTLIGHT SERIES THAT CAN BE SPOKEN WORD COMEDY, THE SCREENING OF 40E9SDZ ANNIVERSARY OF HOOSIERS WITH TALKBACK BY THE DIRECTOR AND WRITER ARE IN OUR SPOTLIGHT SERIES AND TRIBUTE SERIES WE HAVE HAD TRIBUTE PROMISES IN THE PAST, WE TYPICALLY BUT THOSE IN OTHER GENRES, A LOT OF PEOPLE ENJOY TRIBUTES SOME, THINK LESS OF THEM SO WE HAD CREATE A SEPARATE SERIES TO EASIER CALL THEM OW.

WE HAVE ADDITIONAL BEYOND OUR CENTER PRESENT CONCERTS WHICH WE HAVE OVER 70 OF WE WILL HAVE ABOUT 40 RENTAL CONCERTS PEOPLE RENT OR FACILITIES AND PUT THE CONCERTS ON WITH ASSISTANCE AND RENTAL EVENT WE HAVE ABOUT A HUNDRED THAT CAN INCLUDE WEDDINGS CORPORATE EVENT, CORPORATE GATHERINGS COCKTAIL RECEPTIONS AMOUNT SIMILAR THINGS SO IT'S A BUSY CAMPUS FROM THE AM I'D SOLUTION SIDE AND OUR RESIDENT COMPANIES WE ARE VERY PROUD OF OUR SIX RESIDENT COMPANIES CARMEL SYMPHONY ORGANIZE TRA, CIVIC THEELTDER, INDIANA WIND SYMPHONY THEY THEMSELVES WILL HAVE 147 PERFORMANCE EVENTS ON OUR CAMPUS THIS YEAR ALONG WITH DOZENS OF THEIR EDUCATIONAL EVENTS.

WE ARE ALSO VERY PROUD IN OUR MANAGEMENT AGREEMENT WITH THE CITY AS YOU KNOW WE ARE PERMITTED TO CHARGE OUR RESIDENT COMPANIES RENT WHEN THEY USE THE FACILITIES, WE DON'T DO THAT.

WE ALWAYS OVER THE PAST MANY YEARS PROVIDED THEM WITH FREE USE, FREE RENT OF OUR FACILITIES THAT COMES TO AVERAGE ABOUT $450,000 OF RENT THAT WE DO NOT CHARGE THROUGH OUR RESIDENT COMPANIES FOR THEIR BENEFIT. SO WE ARE VERY PROUD TO DO THAT AND PROUD TO SUPPORT OUR RESIDENT COMPANY'S EFFORTS.

I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IN OF OUR EDUCATIONAL REACH TOO. SOMETIMES I FEEL LIKE BEACH SUFFER FROM TOO MUCH HUMBLE FILLS BECAUSE WE DON'T BOAST ENOUGH ABOUT EDUCATION AND THINGS OVER THE PASS TWO YEARS WE HAVE HAD OVER 25,000 PEOPLE PARTICIPATE IN EDUCATION PROGRAMS RANGING FROM 2 YEARS OLD AND YOUNGER FROM TODDLER PROGRAMS TO PEOPLE AS OLD AS 90 YEARS OR MORE IN SOME ADULT PROGRAMS. IT'S A VERY ROBUST PROGRAM.

IT'S SOMETHING WE ARE VERY PROUD OF AND WANT MORE PEOPLE TO KNOW ABOUT OTHER THING WE ARE PROUD OF IS EVERYONE OF THESE EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS IS EITHER COMPLETELY FREE OR HIGHLY SUBSIDIZED BY US, THROUGH DONATIONS AND SPONSORSHIPS SO OUR EDUCATION PROGRAMS ARE SOMETHING THAT WE THINK BRING GREAT VALUE TO THE COMMUNITY. WE HAVE GOT ABOUT 100 EDUCATION PROGRAMS THAT ARE CONDUCTED ANNUALLY AND THESE INCLUDE EVERYTHING FROM STUDENT MATINEES TO UKULELE COURSES, PROGRAMS FOR TODDLERS AND MORE. ONE THING ABOUT FREE STUDENT MAT NAYS MANY STUDENTS COME FROM UNDERSERVED SCHOOL DISTRICT.

THE BARRIER FOR THEM IS MOST OF THOSE SCHOOLS DON'T HAVE FUNDING TO PAY FOR BUS DRIVERS AND BUSES, WE STARTED A TRANSPORTATION GRANT PROGRAM BECOME ONE OF OUR MOST POPULAR PROGRAMS TO DOUGH NAIL TO A SPONSORS TO SUPPORT.

WE HAVE NEVER TURNED DOWN A SCHOOL IN FIELD OF TRANSPORTATION GRANT SO WE ARE HAVE BEEN YOU CAN SEE THE PICTURES AT THE CONCERT WITH 1100 STUDENTS THAT CAME ON BUSES DRIVEN BY DRIVERS WHO WERE PAID FOR BY ALLIED SOLUTION CENTER SOMETHING WE ARE EXTREMELY PROUD OF.

ALLIED SOLUTION CENTER IS ALSO A GREAT GATHERING PLACE FOR IN

[01:00:04]

COMMUNITY. IT IS A PLACE THAT WE ARE VERY PROUD TO SAY IS REALLY THE CENTER OF THE COMMUNITY AND SO APPROPRIATELY NAMED THE ALLIED SOLUTION CENTER FOR PERFORMING ARTS. WE HAVE A NATURALIZATION CEREMONY WHERE WE BRING IN THROUGH PARTNERSHIP OF FEDERAL COURTS THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF INDIANA WE BRING IN INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE TAKEN THE TESTS STUDYING PASSED THE EXAMINATION AND TAKEN THE OATH OF CITIZENSHIP IN OUR HALL AND ACROSS OUR STAGE, WE OFTEN LIVE STREAM THEM SO FRIENDS FAMILY AND FOREIGN COUNTRIES CAN WATCH LOVED ONES AND FRIENDS BECOME U.S. CITIZEN SENSE, WE HAVE HOSTED DEBATES.

OTHER CEREMONIES LIKE MLK CEREMONY, I WANT TO TALK JUST BRIEFLY THE PRISM PROJECT ANOTHER ONE OF OUR EDUCATION PROGRAMS BUT THIS ONE IS A MONTH LONG CAMP THAT OCCURS DURING JUNE WHEN WE BRING IN YOUNG PEOPLE WITH VARIOUS DISABILITIES RANGE FROM AUTISM TO MOBILITY ISSUES, SENARY ISSUES AND VARIETY OF OTHER THINGS AND HAVE ONE TO ONE COACHING FOR THEM.

WE ARE ABLE TO PAY OUR COACHES THROUGH GENEROUS SPONSOR SHIPS AND GRANTS. THESE STUDENTS WORK AND LEARN ABOUT MUSIC LEARN TO PLAY INSTRUMENTS LEARN TO SING AND DANCE AND IT CULMINATES IN A SOLD OUT SHOW MEANING FREE AND EVERYBODY, EVERY SEAT IS TAKEN UP BY FRIENDS AMOUNT FAMILY.

IT'S ONE OF THE BEST THINGS WE DO ON CAMPUS IS SOMETHING WE ARE EXTREMELY PROUD OF. THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS HAPPENING DURING THIS 16TH SEASON BUT AS I SAID THE LAST TOPIC I WANTED TO DISCUSS IT WAS POLE DAY SEASON WHICH IS A WONDERFUL SEASON FOR US. IT IS OUR RETAIL SEEN FOR BOTH US THE ALLIED SOLUTION CENTER AND OUR RESIDENT COMPANIES I THINK PER SHOW WE ALL ENJOY OR HAVE ENJOYED THE HIGHEST NUMBER OF TICKETS SOLD PER SHOW OF ANY OTHER SERIES THROUGHOUT THE

SEASON. >> PEOPLE LOVE TO GO TO HOLIDAY SHOWS. WE GENERATE A LOT OF REVENUE FROM THAT. SINCE OVER THE YEARS AS THE CHRISTMAS MARK HAS GROWN IN POPULARITY WE HAVE EXPERIENCED CHALLENGES AND BEFORE I TALK ABOUT THEM I WANT TO SAY ANYTHING I'M ABOUT TO SAY IS IN NO WAY SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A CRITICISM OF THE CHRIS [INDISTINCT] MART.

THEY'VE BEEN GREAT PARTNERS OF OURS AND WE ENJOYED A GREAT RELATIONSHIP WITH THEIR CEO AND ZACH AND WITH JASON AND HIS STAFF. WE WORK VERY WELL, VERY HAND IN HAND WITH THEM BUT THIS AND WE AND OTHERS ARE BECOMING SOMEWHAT VICTIMS OF WHAT HAS BECOME A VERY CROWDED CAMPUS DURING THE HOLIDAY SEASON. JUST TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF HIGHLIGHT YOU CAN SEE HERE WE HAVE CALCULATED SINCE 2023 OUR COVERAGE TICKETS SOLD PER PERFORMANCE IS REDUCED BY 20 PERCENT FROM WHAT I WAS IN 2023 AVERAGE ATTENDANCE FOR OUR PROPOSES IS HAS GONE DOWN 24 PERCENT AND SO FAR THAT REPRESENTS ABOUT 66000 DOLLARS IN LOST ROVE NEW AND WE ADVERTISE THAT IT TO CONTINUE TO GROW THE REASON BEING THE AVERAGE ATTRITION PERFORMANCE IS INCREASED BY A PERCENT SINCE 2023. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ATTRITION FOR PERFORMANCE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO BUY TICKETS BUT DON'T COME TO THE SHOW. SO WE KNOW WHAT THAT IS BECAUSE IF THEY BUY THE TICKETS AND THEY'RE NOT SCANNED WE KNOW THEY DIDN'T SHOW UP. OUR ATTRITION RATE MOST SHOWS EVEN OUR BEST SELLING SHOWS DURING THE SEASON IS ALWAYS AROUND 3-5 PERCENT AND I NEVER UNDERSTOOD WHY SOMEBODY WOULD BUY A SECOND IT TO SEE JOHN LEGEND BUT IT HAPPENS AND DURING THE HOLIDAY SHOWS THAT ALMOST IS DOUBLE AND WE KNOW PEOPLE ARE BUYING THOSE TICKETS AND NOT SHOWING UP.

WE ANTICIPATE THAT PEOPLE BUYING PARTICULAR END AND NOT SHOWING UP THE ONLY THING WORSE THAN SOMEBODY BUYING AND NOT SHOWING UP IS IF THEY DON'T BUY THE TICKET AT ALL SO IT IS A CONCERN FOR US AND I APPRECIATE IT GREATLY THIS CONCERN HAS BEEN HEARD AND IS BEING RESPONDED TO. AND I WISH PRESIDENT SNYDER WERE STILL HERE BECAUSE I WANT TO THANK HIM AND COUNCILOR AASEN AND WORRELL BECAUSE BE SHUT TOGETHER A TASK FORCE TO SEE IF WE CAN COME UP WITH SOLUTIONS COLLABORATIVELY AND BRING

[01:05:06]

CONSTITUENCIES WHO HAVE AND INTEREST IN SEEING THE SITUATION IMPROVE. REPRESENTATIVES OF REI WHO MANAGED THE JAMES BUILDING AND EACH HAS EXPRESSED THEIR CONCERNS IN DIFFERENT WAYS AND THINGS THEY'RE SEEING AND FEELING THAT ARE A RESULT OF THE CROWDING THAT OCCURS DURING THOSE 5 WEEKS OF THE CHRIS KINDLE MARKET.

THE MARKETTH IS CHALLENGED BY IT.

IT'S THE PARKING AND THE TRAFFIC FOR THEM IS DIFFICULT AND IT IMPACT THE GUESTS WHO COME THERE.

HOTEL CARMICHAEL REPORT THEY'RE SOLD OUT ON THEIR ROOMS EXPERIENCE'S LOWEST CUSTOMER SATISFACTION RATINGS DURING THAT TIME. WILL HAVE EI EXPRESSED CONCERNS ABOUT CROWDING PARKING L.A. SOLUTION CENTER WE EXPERIENCED A LOSS IN TICKET REVENUE, PATRON DISSATISFACTION AS WELL, WE HAVE PATRON SURVEYS AFTER EVERY PERFORMANCE.

THESE ARE ELECTRONIC AND DURING THE HOLIDAY SEASON WE HAVE GOT HUNDREDS OF RESPONSES SAYING YOU NEED TO FIX THE PARKING.

YOU NEED TO FIX THE TRAFFIC. PEOPLE TELLING US THEY WILL NOT BUY TICKETS ANYMORE UNTIL IT'S CORRECTED, PEOPLE BLAMING SAYING THEY'RE GOING TO STOP DONATE UNTIL IT'S CORRECTED.

SO IT'S A PROBLEM. CARMEL POLICE DEPARTMENT HAVE BEEN AT THESE TASK FORCE MEETINGS.

THEY'VE BEEN HELPFUL AND INFORM TICH AND WE ASK CAN THEY PROVIDE GR GREATERS SERVICE, LARGER NUMBERS OF OFFICERS TO DIRECT TRAFFIC. THEY'RE HAPPY TO DO SO BUT RAISE THE QUESTION WHERE WE DIRECT THEM TO.

I'LL GET TO SOME OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS WE HAVE THAT WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO DOCUMENT JUST TO HIGHLIGHT THIS IS A DAYTIME LOOK AT THE CROWDING. ON THE CAMPUS.

YOU CAN SEE THE PARKING GARAGE IN THE HOTEL UP IN THE UPPER LEFT-HAND CORNER DURING THE DAY ARE PACKED.

WHICH MEANS WHEN OUR GUESTS ARE COMING FOR SHOWS THAT MIGHT BEGIN AT 7:30 OR 8 THEY'RE FILLED IN.

THERE'S FEW PLACES FOR OUR PATRONS TO PARK SO IT REALLY IS A CHALLENGE, EVEN DURING THE DAYTIME.

THAT IS EXACERBATED AT NIGHT. IT GETS DARKER CROWDS GET BIGGER AND WE STARTING HAVING SHOWS OFTEN IN THREE VENUES AT THE SAME TIME WHILE THE MARKET IS GOING ON YOU CAN SEE IN THIS AERIAL VIEW THE TRAFFIC ON THEIR AVENUE WHICH SOMETIMES IS BACKED UP ALL THE WAY TO I BELIEVE CARMEL DRIVE SO IT'S A DIFFICULT SITUATION AS I SAID THAT IMPACTS A NUMBER OF PEOPLE AND FOR THOSE WHO ARE PRESENTING SHOWS OR PRODUCING SHOWS, THAT BEING OURSELVES AND RESIDENTS COMPANIES IT'S OUR RETAIL SEASON AND IT IMPACTS US. I BELIEVE IT'S ALSO A SAFETY CONCERN AND I KNOW THE CARMEL POLICE RAISE THIS DURING OUR TASK FORCE MEETINGS THERE'S A LOT OF PARTICULARLY IN THE WINTER IN THE DARK, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE TRIED TO COME TO THE CAMPUS EITHER FOR SHORES OR CHRIS KINDLE MARK YOU'LL SEE PEOPLE BARKING ON THIRD AVENUE PEOPLE PUSHING STROLLERS, THERE CAN BE ICY ROADS, IT'S DARK BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE SEARCHING HARD FOR PLACES TO PARK SO IT CONTINUES TO BE A CONCERN.

SOMETHING THAT EXACERBATES THE PROBLEM THIS IS A BEAUTIFUL AERIAL VIEW OF CARTER GREEN WITH KIND OF A FEW OF THE CHRIS KINDLE MARK BUT IT'S ALSO A PARKING PLACE, ABOUT 89 CARS ARE TYPICALLY PARKED THERE WHEN WE HAVE PERFORMANCES THAT INCLUDE 7 ADA SPOTS. THE PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE IS THE MARKET GOES IN, BEGINNING AROUND OCTOBER 1ST.

THIS YEAR IT WENT EARLIER THAN THAT OR STARTED AND IT COMES OUT PRETTY. BY THE END OF MARCH.

SO THERE'S ABOUT A SIX-MONTH PERIOD IN THERE THAT THOSE NEARLY 90 SPOTS ARE NOT AVAILABLE TO US, OUR PATRONS OR

[01:10:05]

OTHERS. THAT CREATES A LOT OF APPROXIMATE NOT JUST FOR US BUT FOR THE BUSINESSES THERE AND OTHER PLACES, AND REALLY OVERLAPS REALLY WITH MOST OF OUR SEASON. THE BULK OF OUR SEASON GOES FROM ABOUT THE END OF SEPTEMBER TO MIDDLE ORDINARY END OF MAY AND YET, THE GREEN IS NOT AVAILABLE FOR ALL BUT TWO OF THOSE MONTHS, SO IT CONTINUES TO BE A CHAK AND ONE WE ARE HOPEFUL CAN BE IMPROVED UPON. THE TASK FORCE HAS COME UP WITH SEVERAL IDEAS, THAT THROUGH A LOT OF DLIG RELATION AND DISCUSSION WE HAVE LEARNED MAY NOT OR CAN'T WORK AND I WANTED TO SHOW THOSE TO YOU BEFORE I GIVE YOU THE RECOMMONDATIONS OF THINGS THAT MIGHT BE ABLE TO WORK SO IDEAS DISCUSSED RESTRICTIONSING ACCESS TO CENTER GARAGE ONLY TO AL LIED SOLUTIONS CENTERS SOMETHING ENDORSED BY JASON OF THE CHRIS KINDLE MART.

HE IS WIG TO MAKE THAT AVAILABLE AND WORK WITH US TO HAVE THAT UNFORTUNATELY WE HAVE LEARNED FROM THE CARMEL REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE. THE REASON IS NOT POSSIBLE WE ARE TOLD IS THAT THAT GARAGE WAS BUILT TO SERVICE THE ENTIRE CAMPUS AND IF IT WERE TO CALL OUT US AND NOT HOW MART PATRONS TO UTILIZE IT IT WOULD BE IN VIOLATION OF WAIVER AGREEMENTS THIS WERE WHEN THE GARAGE WAS BILLED.

WE UNDERSTAND, WE APPRECIATE THE OBSTACLE, I WOULD NOTE WHEN THAT GARAGE WAS BUILT IT WAS BUILT FOR A HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE OVER THE COURSE OF A YEAR COMING TO SEE PERFORMANCES THERE WERE 300,000 PEOPLE TO COME OVER THE COURSE OF 25 DAYS.

IT'S TO THE BUILT FOR THAT. WE ALSO LOOKED AT THAT INCREASED THE KARMA POLICE ARE MORE THAN WILLING TO ASSIST WITH THAT, THE INDICATED UNTIL THERE'S MORE PLACES TO ACTUALLY SEND THE CARDS IT WOULD BE A LITTLE FUTILE TO TRY TO CONTINUE TO PUSH THEM IN DIRECTIONS. ADDITIONAL SHUTTLES, ESTABLISH A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, THE MARKET HAD HAD SOME SUCCESS WITH SHUTTLING. THE SHUTTLES I THINK YOU SAID, SHUTTLED 11,000 PEOPLE. LAST YEAR AROUND 3000 CARS WHICH WAS GREAT. THE PROBLEM WITH THAT THOUGH IS 300,000 PEOPLE WHO COME, THAT MEANS ABOUT 289,000 PEOPLE ARE NOT USING THE SHUTTLES, THE SHUTTLE SYSTEM ONLY WORKS FOR ABOUT 3.7% OF THE PEOPLE ATTENDING THE MARKET.

SO 96, 97% ARE NOT USING THE SHUTTLES.

JASON WOULD LOVE TO UTILIZE MORE SHUTTLES, HE DOES NOT HAVE THE FUNDING FOR IT, HE ADVISED THE TASK FORCE.

IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THERE MAY BE SOME DISCUSSIONS GOING ON, HOPEFULLY WITH THE CITY TO PROVIDE SOME FUNDING FOR ADDITIONAL SHUTTLES. I THINK THAT WOULD HELP SIGNIFICANTLY AND I HOPE THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED.

ADDITIONAL PARKING GARAGES AROUND CAMPUS, NOTING THE TWO MAIN PARKING GARAGES ARE MORE THAN FULL.

DURING THE MARKET. THE CRC ADVISED US THE NEW PARKING GARAGE WILL BE GOING UP NORTH OF U.S., THE DEVELOPMENT GOING ON THERE. THAT IS PROBABLY NOT GOING TO BE READY FOR ABOUT THREE YEARS, WE ARE ADVISED THAT A NUMBER OF THOSE SPOTS WILL BE RESERVED SPOTS FOR BUSINESSES AND RESIDENTS. IT MAY BE -- IT WILL CERTAINLY HELP, IT WON'T HELP ANYTIME SOON, AND WILL BE OF SOME LIMITED VALUE AT THAT POINT BECAUSE THE RECOMMENDATIONS WE HAVE, I OFTEN TELL MY COLLEAGUES AT WORK I DON'T BRING SOMEBODY A PROBLEM UNLESS YOU'RE ALSO BRINGING THEM A RECOMMENDED SOLUTION. IT MAY NOT BE A SOLUTIN YOU AGREE WITH BUT IF YOU BRING SOMEBODY A PROBLEM WITHOUT A SOLUTION YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE YOUR PROBLEM THEIR PROBLEM AND I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT. THERE'S SOME RECOMMENDATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN COMING OUT OF THIS TASK FORCE, THE TASK FORCE IS NOT DONE. THERE ARE SOME OTHER MEETINGS THAT WILL BE HELD AS WE CONTINUE.

BUT A FEW RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE HAVE, FIRST AND FOREMOST WE REALLY BELIEVE IN TRAFFIC AND PUBLIC STUDY HAS TO BE DONE BY AN ENGINEERING FIRM THAT SPECIALIZES IN LARGE EVENTS LIKE THIS. IF YOU WANT TO PUT IT INTO PERSPECTIVE THE MARKETER BRINGS IN ABOUT 300,000 PEOPLE TO ITS EVENT. THE INDY 500 BRINGS ABOUT 300,000 PEOPLE. ALBEIT IN ONE DAY, BUT THE MARKET IS DOING IT OVER THE COURSE OF 25 DAYS AN AVERAGE OF 12,000 PEOPLE PER DAY. INDIANA PACERS FOR THEIR GAMES AVERAGED JUST A LITTLE OVER 16,000 PEOPLE.

THEY HAVE A TRAFFIC AND PARKING PLAN.

ITHE INDY 500 AS, THE MUSIC CENTER HAS ABOUT 40 PERFORMANCE A YEAR, THE AVERAGE ABOUT 20,000 PEOPLE, JUST ABOUT THE SAME AS THE MARKET. THEY HAVE A TRAFFIC AND PARKING PLAN. ONE RECOMMENDATION WE HAVE IS WE

[01:15:03]

URGE THE CITY, THIS YEAR, AS THIS CHRIS KINDLE MARKET IS GETTING READY TO START IN NOVEMBER, TO RETAIN AN ENGINEERING FIRM SPECIALIZING IN THIS TYPE OF WORK, TO LOOK AT THE TRAFFIC PATTERNS, AND COME UP WITH RECOMMENDATIONS.

THERE'S ACCOMMODATIONS OBVIOUSLY WON'T BE IMPLEMENTED UNTIL THE FOLLOWING YEAR OR MAYBE YEARS AFTER THAT BUT PERHAPS HE CAN COME UP WITH 1-3 YEAR PLAN TO REALLY TRY TO TACKLE THIS PROBLEM AND COL CORRECTED, NOT T US BUT THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE.

WE DO THINK A DEDICATED RIDESHARE LOCATION FOR THE CAMPUS WOULD BE HELPFUL, SO MANY PARKING SPOTS ARE TAKEN UP, THE SHUTTLES HAVE SOME LIMITED IMPACT, BUT A RIDESHARE PROGRAM OR A PLACE FOR UBERS AND LIFTS COULD COME MUCH LIKE YOU WOULD SEE AT AIRPORTS WHERE THERE IS A SETUP AND THEY COME AND YOU CAN LINE 15 OF THEM UP AND NOTIFY GUESTS WHERE THEY ARE AND GET DROPPED OFF OR PICKED UP THERE. THAT AGAIN WOULD TAKE THE CITY AND PROBABLY THE STREET DEPARTMENT TO COORDINATE, IT WOULD HAVE TO LIKELY BE ON A ROUTE SOMEPLACE, SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE UP TO THE CITY TO PUT INTO EFFECT.

AND FINALLY AS YOU MENTIONED SOME ADDITIONAL SHUTTLES, I AM TOLD THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT DOES NOT HAVE THE FUNDING FOR THAT BUT FUNDING IS NEEDED AND I THINK WOULD BE HELPFUL AND WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED BY THE COMMUNITY.

I RAISE ALL THIS BECAUSE WE ARE TRYING TO IDENTIFY AND TRYING TO BE PART OF A SOLUTION HERE, UNFORTUNATELY ALL THE SOLUTIONS INVOLVE EITHER THE STREETS OR THE PARKING GARAGES, THE STREETS AND PARKING GARAGES ARE CONTROLLED BY THE CITY NOT THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT, NOT THE ONLY SOLUTION CENTER OR COMPANIES.

WE ARE REALLY HOPEFUL THIS PROBLEM CAN BE ADDRESSED, AND REALLY FOR THE GOOD FOR ALL OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS AND CONSTITUENCIES, THE SAFETY OF THIS COMMUNITY AND PEOPLE ATTENDING ALL OF THESE THINGS, THAT THIS COULD BE TURNED INTO A REAL WIN AND ALL OF THIS CAN GRAVITATE TOGETHER IN HARMONY AND PEOPLE CAN ENJOY ALL THESE WONDERFUL AMENITIES THAT CARMEL PROVIDES WITHOUT SOME OF THE HASSLES THEY ARE DEALING WITH.

IN CONCLUSION I WANT TO OFFER A HUGE THANK YOU, AGAIN THANK YOU TO ADMINISTRATION AND COUNCIL FOR RESTORING OUR MANAGEMENT FEE, WE GREATLY APPRECIATE THAT, AND THAT WILL HELP US TREMENDOUSLY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT OF THE ARTS, IT IS A WINNING STRATEGY.

IF I HAD $2.5 MILLION TO INVEST, GAVE A 23 MILLION ANNUAL RETURN I WOULD DO IT IN A HEARTBEAT AND THAT'S WHAT WE ARE DOING.

THANK YOU FOR LISTENING TO THESE CONCERNS I HAVE RAISED, I JUST HOPE THAT SOME OF THEM RESONATED WITH YOU AND IF YOU OR OTHERS HAVE IDEAS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SHARE WITH US OR WITH THE TASK FORCE WE WOULD WELCOME THEM, NO IDEA IS A BAD IDEA.

WE ARE HOPEFUL WE CAN COME TOGETHER AND REALLY WORK TO

ADDRESS THESE CONCERNS. >> THANK YOU, ANY QUESTIONS?

>> THANK YOU. I LOVE WHAT YOU GUYS ARE DOING THERE I APPRECIATE THE PRESENTATION TODAY.

SOME MAY REMEMBER I WAS PRESIDENT OF THE DEVELOPER CAMPUS SO IT'S BEEN AN HONOR TO PLAY A LITTLE PART IN WHAT YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO. JUST TO HELP ME LEVEL SET HERE A LITTLE BIT WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ATTENDANCE NOW FOR THE HOLIDAY PERFORMANCE, FOR A TYPICAL SHOW NOT DURING THE MARKET, NOT DURING THE HOLIDAY PERFORMANCE, WHAT IS THE AVERAGE ATTENDANCE AND AVERAGE TICKETS SOLD PER SHOW AS A UNIT OF

PERCENTAGE? >> IT'S HIGHLY DEPENDENT ON THE SHOW, IS A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION WITH A MISSION.

WE PRESENT PERFORMANCE AS EXISTING, JOHN LEGEND, THEY ARE EASY SELLOUTS. WE ALSO PRESENT PERFORMANCES, JUST THE OTHER NIGHT, WONDERFUL INDIAN ARTISTS THAT HAVE BROUGHT IN A NUMBER OF MEMBERS OF OUR INDIAN COMMUNITY, A TREMENDOUS PERFORMANCE. IT HAD A FEW HUNDRED PEOPLE IN IT AND THAT IS BY DESIGN AND BY DESIGN WE ARE NOT A RULE OF OR YOU KNOW KIND OF OLD NATIONAL WHERE WE ARE PRESENTING ONLY

COMMERCIAL -- >> WHAT WOULD IT BE THE AVERAGE

OVER ALL THE SHOWS? >> I DON'T HAVE THAT NUMBER, I CAN TELL YOU THE HOLIDAY SHOWS, WHICH TEND TO BE ALL COMMERCIAL SHOWS AND OUR REVENUE PRODUCERS THAT HELP SUPPORT OUR NON-REVENUE PRODUCING SHOWS, IN 2023 W WERE AVERAGING A LITTLE OVER 1100 PEOPLE PER SHOW WHICH IS A NEAR SELLOUT PER SHOW.

THAT IS DOWN TO ABOUT 900 AS OF LAST YEAR.

>> YOU DON'T HAVE THE DATA ON THE AVERAGE ATTENDANCE?

>> ACROSS ALL 70 SHOWS I DO NOT. >> OKAY.

>> THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING YOU DO, I GOT TICKETS TO A SHOW THIS WEEKEND I GOT MY DAUGHTER TO

[01:20:03]

COME SO THAT WILL BE FUN. THERE IS A PUPPET IN THERE OKAY! IT WILL BE OKAY. [LAUGHTER] VERY FAMILY-FRIENDLY. THANK YOU FOR INCLUDING ME IN THE TASK FORCE. THERE'S A FEW THINGS I WANT TO MENTION, I THINK NUMBER 1, IT'S NOT JUST A PROBLEM THAT AFFECTS YOU, IT AFFECTS THE CENTER FOR -- IT AFFECTS THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT AS WELL. WE WANT THEIR PATRONS THAT ARE GOING THERE TO COME BACK WITH A POSITIVE EXPERIENCE.

THEY ARE VISITING IOWA CITY AND WE WANT THEM TO NOT LEAVE AND SAY I HAD A TERRIBLE TIME WE COULD NOT FIND A PARKING, ET CETERA. RESIDENTS THAT LIVE NEARBY WE HEARD LOTS OF COMPLAINTS ABOUT PEOPLE PARKING IN FRONT OF HOUSES, THE NEIGHBORHOODS TO THE WEST OF THE CENTER FOR PERFORMING ARTS, ALWAYS DEALING WITH THAT.

OF COURSE RETAIL AND RESTAURANTS RIGHT THERE IN THE VICINITY AS WELL. ONE THING, PLEASE IF YOU ARE HEALTHY AND ABLE, DON'T EVERYBODY TRY TO PARK IN THE EXACT SAME GARAGE RIGHT THERE. PERSONALLY WHEN I GO TO SHOWS I GO PARK IN MIDTOWN, I KNOW IT'S GOING TO BE BUSY, I TAKE A FIVE OR TEN MINUTE WALK, IT IS BEAUTIFUL CHARACTERS LIGHTS, IT'S GREAT. NOT EVERYBODY TRIES TO PARK IN THE EXACT SAME GARAGE, THEN YOU'RE NOT HAVING TO WAIT IN TRAFFIC FOREVER AND HAVING SOME OF THESE ISSUES.

I KNOW THERE ARE SOME RULES ABOUT WHICH GARAGES YOU CAN PARK IN BECAUSE OF PARKING AGREEMENTS, MAYBE THE CITY'S MARKETING DEPARTMENT CAN PUT OUT A MAP IN THE HOLIDAY SEASON ABOUT ALL OF THE DIFFERENT GARAGES IN THE AREA TO MAKE PEOPLE INCREASINGLY AWARE THAT THERE ARE MANY OPTIONS AND NOT JUST THE JAMES BUILDING GARAGE. BUT I HAVE SEEN IT, 5:00 ON A SATURDAY DURING SOME OF THE BUSY CHRISTKINDLMARKT TIMES WHEN THERE IS A LINE OF CARS WAITING AT THE GARAGE AND IT'S WRAPPING AROUND THE CITY CENTER DRIVE, BACKED UP NEARLY INTO THE ROUNDABOUT. NOW THEY ARE AT A STANDSTILL.

YOU ARE SITTING THERE WAITING, PARK FIVE OR 10 MINUTES AWAY YES, YOU WILL HAVE TO WALK AND SOME PATRONS HAVE MOBILITY ISSUES BUT IF YOU ARE PHYSICALLY ABLE, PLEASE PARK FURTHER AWAY TO HELP THOSE WHO CAN'T WALK. THAT IS JUST MY PLEA TO THAT WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER, PLEASE DON'T EVERYBODY TRY TO PARK IN THE EXACT SAME GARAGE ALL THE TIME.

>> COUNCILMAN? >> THANK YOU MR. VICE PRESIDENT.

I WILL ECHO EVERYTHING EVERYBODY HAS SAID.

LOVE WHAT YOU DO, LOVE THE ALLIED SOLUTION CENTER FOR PERFORMING ARTS. ON A SELFISH NOTE AS A MEMBER OF ONE OF OUR RESIDENT COMPANIES, OUR OPENING NIGHT WE HAD THE VOLLEY KEG WHICH WAS SUPER SUCCESSFUL.

WE ARE A PRODUCT OF OUR SUCCESSFUL MARKETS AND FESTIVALS, WHICH IS NOT A BAD THING TO HAVE.

WE HAD ONE PATRON WHO COULD NOT FIND A SPOT AND LEFT.

FROM MY OWN SELFISH REASONS I HOPE WE CAN FIND SOLUTIONS FOR THE PARKING FOR THOSE DAYS ESPECIALLY DURING WHICH IS OUR BUSIEST SEASON, FROM SEPTEMBER UNTIL MAY AS WELL.

I LOVE THE IDEA OF THIS. I WOULD BE A PROPONENT OF THAT, I WOULD BE A PROPONENT OF A MORE TROLLEYS SHUTTLES, SOUNDS LIKE TWO SYLLABLES. I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HARD WORK YOU DO AS WELL I APPRECIATE IT VERY MUCH.

>> COUNCILOR JEFF WORRELL? >> THANK YOU MR. VICE PRESIDENT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING AND SPEAKING FRANKLY AND RAISING THIS ISSUE. I THINK WE HAVE BEEN HEARING THIS NOW FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS, AND OF COURSE POPULARITY AND GROWING ARE ALL GREAT PROBLEMS TO HAVE UNTIL IT'S A LARGER PROBLEM AND IT'S NOT SO GREAT. THE WAY I LOOK AT THIS, IT'S NOT WHAT I WANT TO HEAR, BUT IT IS SOMETHING WE HAVE TO START PAYING ATTENTION TO, AND WHY I WAS INTERESTED IN AT LEAST STARTING TO UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM THROUGH THE TASK FORCE AND FIND OUT WHAT OPTIONS ARE AVAILABLE.

FRANKLY THERE IS NO EASY ANSWER. SO I AGREE WITH YOU, I THINK INVESTING IN A STUDY THAT IS SPECIFICALLY LOOKING AT INDIANAPOLIS 500 TACTICS TO GET A TRAFFIC IN AND OUT IS ABOUT THE ONLY LEVER WE HAVE TO PULL AT THIS MOMENT.

AND OF COURSE I COULD SHOW THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO EXCEPT MOVE SOMETHING OR CHANGE SOMETHING.

I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY REALLY WANTS TO DO THAT YET EITHER.

YOU MAY OR MAY NOT LIKE ME FOR THIS BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU GET CREDIT BECAUSE YOU BROUGHT UP MONEY FOR THE SHUTTLE PROGRAM

[01:25:06]

SO THAT WAS ADDRESSED WITHOUT ME NECESSARILY ASKING FOR IT, ALTHOUGH IT WAS AN IDEA. IT'S NOT JUST BEING TALKED ABOUT, IT IS SOMETHING THAT THE MAYOR HAS SAID, I HAVE THIS MONEY OR IDENTIFIED THESE DOLLARS AND WE HAVE TO IDENTIFY MORE. A SIGNIFICANT $25,000 PLAN.

NOW THAT'S TO ADD ONE MORE, UNDERSTANDING IS ABOUT 45K TO ADD ANOTHER DAY, IT MAY BE A LITTLE BIT LESS THAN THAT BUT WE WERE SHOOTING FOR THAT. FILLING IN THE REST OF THAT NUMBER, THESE ARE SHORT TERM FIXES, I THINK HAVING SOME KIND OF LONGER TERM PLAN IS SOMETHING WE HAVE TO LOOK AT BECAUSE YOU ARE LIKE THE CANARY IN THE CAVE SAYING THINGS ARE GETTING BAD AND THEY JUST GET WORSE EACH YEAR.

THERE MAY BE SOME ANOMALY, BUT I DO THINK IT IS TRAFFIC.

I KNOW THERE WAS AN ANECDOTAL STORY IN THE AUDIENCE TONIGHT OF SOMEBODY NOT COMING TO A PERFORMANCE BECAUSE OF TRAFFIC AND IT WAS UNSOLICITED. THE TRAFFIC STUDY I THINK IS PROBABLY THE BIGGEST THING WE HAVE TO TACKLE.

>> WE WILL, I TOLD A FEW PEOPLE THIS BEFORE AND I SAID TO THE TASK FORCE LAST YEAR, I THINK IT WAS, AFTER A PERFORMANCE, STOPPED BY MARKET DISTRICT ON THE WAY HOME TO PICK UP A FEW THINGS, I WAS IN THE PRODUCE SECTION AND THE LADY IN THE SHOPPING CART SAW ME, CLEARLY RECOGNIZED ME, AIMED HER SHOPPING CART AT ME AND SORT OF CAME FULL SPEED.

SHE CAME UP TO ME AND SAID ARE YOU JEFF? AND I SAID MAYBE. [LAUGHTER] AND SHE SAID WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT THE PARKING PROBLEM? AND I SAID YOU KNOW WHAT I AGREE IT IS A SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM, IT WOULD BE A BIGGER PROBLEM IF THERE WERE NO CARS OUT THERE.

WE ARE VICTIMS OF OUR OWN SUCCESS, OUR RESIDENT COMPANY'S SUCCESS, THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT SUCCESS AND ALL OF THAT.

WE CAN BE PROUD OF THAT. IT ALSO MEANS AS I SAID JEFF, WE HAVE TO ADDRESS IT AND FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DO IT, I THINK IT WILL PROBABLY TAKE PEOPLE WITH REAL EXPERIENCE AND INGENUITY TO

GIVE US BEST RECOMMENDATIONS. >> THANK YOU.

ANY MORE QUESTIONS? WE CAN MOVE FORWARD.

APPRECIATE YOUR UPDATES AND LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING WHAT

[12.a. Thirty-first Reading of Ordinance D-2772-25; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Adopting a New Article 8 Under Chapter 2 of the Carmel City Code; Sponsors: Councilors Aasen, Ayers, Minnaar, Snyder and Worrell. In the Finance, Utilities and Rules Committee. (Meeting date 10/19/26)]

FINANCIAL REPORTS IN THE PROCESS YOU PULLED TOGETHER.

>> THANKS FOR YOUR TIME. >> MOVING ON TO OLD BUSINESS, SUBSECTION A, 31ST READING OF ORDINANCE D2772-25, AN ORDINANCE OF THE COMMON COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF CARMEL INDIANA ADOPTING A NEW ARTICLE EIGHT UNDER CHAPTER 2 OF THE CARMEL CITY CODE, SPONSORS ARE COUNSELOR AYERS, AASEN, MINNAAR AND SNYDER, COUNSELOR TAYLOR WOULD YOU LIKE TO GIVE AN UPDATE OF WHERE WE ARE? YES, FINANCE COMMITTEE REVIEWED THIS WITH CORPORATION COUNSEL TODAY AT 3:00, AND A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT ROLES, WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH WITH THE ORDINANCE AND THE ORDINANCE RETURNED BACK FROM THE FINANCE COMMITTEE WITH A UNANIMOUS NEGATIVE RECOMMENDATION BEFORE

COUNCIL. >> ANYBODY WANT TO DISCUSS WHAT DISCUSSION HAPPENED TODAY AT 3:00?

OR IS THERE -- >> I AM SORRY I WAS NOT ABLE TO WATCH THAT MEETING BECAUSE IT ALSO HAPPENED AT 3:00, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A BIT OF AN UPDATE AND UNDERSTANDING OF WHY THIS

WAS -- >> I WILL SAY WE CAN DO A SIMILAR THING WE JUST DID, MICROMOBILITY, AN OLDER RECOMMENDATION, UNTIL WE HAVE TIME TO REVIEW THE VIDEO AND

SUCH BUT CONTEXT WOULD BE GREAT. >> BASICALLY IT CAME DOWN TO HAVING TO INFRINGE ON THE BYLAWS AND ARTICLES, NONPROFIT ORGANIZATIONS, IN ORDER TO HAVE TO CHANGE THOSE IN ORDER TO APPEASE AND FOLLOW THE ORDINANCE AS WRITTEN.

IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT A COUPLE OTHER ITEMS YOU

MENTIONED? >> IT MAY BE HELPFUL BENJAMIN,

AT SOME POINTS -- >> THANK YOU MR. VICE PRESIDENT.

YOU ARE WELCOME TO HAVE BENJAMIN COME UP BUT I ASKED SEVERAL QUESTIONS REGARDING -- WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED? IT WOULD BE THE SAME PROSPECT THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO HAVE THE NON-FOR-PROFITS CHANGE THEIR BYLAWS UNDER THE HARDSHIP THAT WOULD COME FROM HIRING AN ATTORNEY TO CHANGE BYLAWS FOR EVERY NON-FOR-PROFIT THAT GIVES

[01:30:03]

US $25,000, WE GIVE $25,000 TO IN-KIND OR CASH DONATION WOULD REQUIRE US TO HAVE THEM DO THAT. AND THEN WE MAY ONLY GIVE THEM A DONATION ONE TIME, AND THEN WE MAY CHANGE THE BYLAWS OR THERE'S ARTICLE OR CORPORATIONS FOR ONE DONATION.

FOR ME I FELT THAT IT WAS A HARDSHIP, BUT BENJAMIN WILL TELL YOU MORE ABOUT THE LEGAL ASPECTS OF IT.

I DID GO DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE AND I THINK WE DISCUSSED THIS ON THE PHONE OF ARTICLE 23-17, THE NON-FOR-PROFIT LAW, WHICH IS WHAT SPURRED ME TO CALL NON-FOR-PROFIT ATTORNEY TO GET MORE INFORMATION. I DID DO A LOT OF DUE DILIGENCE ON THIS ONE I DID ASK QUESTIONS YOU AND I SPOKE ABOUT.

>> BENJAMIN? >> GOOD EVENING COUNCIL, BENJAMIN, CORPORATE COUNSEL. SO THIS IS A VERY UNIQUE ORDINANCE, IT IS A VERY BROAD ORDINANCE.

IT EXPANDS THE SCOPE OF COUNCIL FUNDING, EXTENDING INTO THE OPERATIONS OF NONPROFITS WITHIN THE CITY AND THOSE ENTITIES THAT RECEIVE FUNDING AT THE LEVELS PROMOTING UNDER THE DEFINITION OF AFFILIATED ENTITY. IT DOES TEST THE SCOPE OF THE COUNCIL'S APPROPRIATION POWERS. THE COUNCIL HAS POWER, VESTED BY STATUTE AND APPROPRIATIONS AND MANAGING FUNDING AND HOW THAT FUNDING IS PROVIDED, AND CERTAINLY THAT POWER CAN COME WITH CONDITIONS. AND THOSE CONDITIONS CAN SPELL OUT SOMEWHAT OF A CARROT VERSUS A STICK, IF YOU WANT THE FUNDING, THEN YOU PERFORM TO THIS PARTICULAR STANDARD OR DO THIS PARTICULAR THING, ALMOST ALWAYS THAT IS ALREADY NOT SET FORTH BY STATUTE, TO BE HOW THE FUNDING IS USED, TYPICALLY FOR THE ITEMS THAT MAY BE PURCHASED, FOR FUNDING AND THE WORK THAT WILL BE PERFORMED. AND ALSO WITH A REQUEST OR REQUIREMENT THERE BE AN ACCOUNTING OR SOME KIND OF RETURN TO THE AWARDING OF BODY TO SAY THAT THIS IS WHAT WE DID WITH IT AND PROVIDED THAT TYPE OF REPORT.

THE ORDINANCE AS DRAFTED GOES BEYOND THAT.

THE ORDINANCE AS DRAFTED, PUTTING ASIDE SOME DAILY SUBSTANTIAL CONCERNS THAT WE HAD IN RELATION TO WHAT AN AFFILIATED ENTITY WOULD BE UNDER THE ORDINANCE.

THOSE ARE THINGS AS CURRENTLY DRAFTED ARE EXTREMELY BROAD AND TERMS ARE NOT NECESSARILY NARROW, I THINK YOU WOULD HAVE AN EXAMPLE WOULD THIS BE -- IT DOES DEFINE IT AS A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION UTILIZED BY THE CITY TO INDIRECTLY SUPPORT ACCESS OR SUPPORT EVENTS OR PROGRAMS OF THE CITY, THIS WOULD BE SOMETHING LIKE THE ROTARY CLUB.

THAT IS HOW BROAD, WITHOUT ANY CLARIFICATION OR PARAMETERS IT CAN BE PLACED. PUTTING THAT ASIDE FOR A MOMENT, IF YOU PULL UNDER THAT AFFILIATED ENTITY DEFINITION, WHAT THE ORDINANCE THEN REQUIRES IS ALL THE COUNCIL TO HAVE SOMEONE HAVE A SEAT ON THAT BOARD.

IN ORDER TO DO THAT BY LAW WE WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN, THESE ENTITIES EXIST AS NONPROFITS UNDER BOTH INDIANA NONPROFIT CORPORATIONS ACT, WHICH AS YOU -- COUNCILOR MINNAAR POINTED AT ITS INDIANA CODE 23-17. BUT ALSO INTERNAL REVENUE CODE AS WELL. AND THESE OPERATE AS CONTRACTS IN A WAY, BETWEEN INDIANA AND THE ENTITY AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. IT WOULD BE REQUIRING THESE ENTITIES TO GO AHEAD AND AMEND ARTICLES OF CORPORATIONS TO BE INCLUDING AN ENTITY ON THAT BOARD.

THIS WOULD BE FOR ANY TIME THEY WOULD QUALIFY AS AN AFFILIATED ENTITY. IT IS SOMETHING THEY ONLY RECEIVE FUNDING ONCE BUT THEN IT HAS THE EFFECT OF PASSING THAT THROUGH. THE MORE TROUBLING PROVISION COMES WITH HOW THE ORGANIZATION ITSELF IS GOVERNED, AND IT IS

[01:35:09]

LINE 54 OF THE ORDINANCE AS PRESENTED TO COUNCIL.

THE REMAINING MEMBERS OF THE AFFILIATED ENTITIES MUST BE APPROVED BY A VOTE OF THE COUNCIL.

SO THAT APPEARS TO INFRINGE ON THE POWERS OF NONPROFITS AS SET FORTH BY THE INDIANA NONPROFIT CORPORATION THAT LIMITS THE AUTHORITY WITHIN THOSE ARTICLES, TO MAKE THOSE NOTICES OF

TERMINATION. >> AS SAID, THERE IS AN ELEMENT OF RISK HERE. THESE ARE UNCHARTED WATERS WHEN IT COMES TO THE FULL SCOPE OF THIS ORDINANCE THAT HAS NOT BEEN TESTED OR VETTED. BUT WE COULD SEE ANYWHERE, A COURT SYSTEM. WHEN WE ARE DEALING WITH A HUMBLE POWER WE HAVE, THERE ARE -- THERE IS A REVIEW THE COURT WILL HAVE, NOTHING SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED FROM THERE THEN THE CITY HAS THAT POWER. THERE ARE LIMITS THAT ARE.

AND I THINK THAT WE RECOMMEND THE RISK OUTWEIGHS WHATEVER BENEFIT THERE MAY BE THAT EXISTS THAT WAY, IN RELATION TO WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED AS OPPOSED TO THE GOAL.

SO THIS WAS MANY MOONS AGO THAT IT WAS PRESENTED TO COUNCIL, BUT THE PURPOSE BEHIND IT MAY NOT BE YET STILL BE PRESENT.

SO THAT MAY BE SOMETHING TO CONSIDER CONSIDERING THE RISK INVOLVED CAN THE UNKNOWN SCOPE OF COUNCIL POWER.

RATHER THE SCOPE THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED TRADITIONAL WOULD BE WHERE THIS COUNCIL DOES PROVIDE POWER DOLLARS AND FUNDING, THOSE ARE TYPICALLY LIMITED TO COUNTING, COMING BACK, REPORTING AND ALSO SETTING HOW THEY WILL BE USED, HOW THOSE DOLLARS WILL

BE USED. >> THANK YOU.

COUNCILOR AASEN? >> I WOULD LIKE TO VOTE ON THIS TONIGHT. I SAY THAT BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN ON OUR AGENDA FOR 18 MONTHS NOW, AND IT REALLY STARTED BECAUSE THERE WERE SOME DISAGREEMENTS WITH THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT AND THE SOLUTION WELL MEANING WAS WE HAD A BOARD REPRESENTATION WITH THE CITY COUNCIL ON THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT TO IMPROVE SOME COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE COUNCIL AND THE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD. WHILE THAT HAPPENED.

WE HAVE A CITY COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVE ON THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT BOARD, WE HAVE NOT HAD ANY ISSUES.

THE WAY THIS IS WRITTEN, NOT ONLY ARE THERE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER WE CAN DO THIS, BUT I'VE RAISED THE QUESTION OF WHETHER WE SHOULD. I REALLY DON'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN EVERY NONPROFIT THAT RECEIVES FINANCIAL OR IN-KIND SUPPORT BECAUSE IN-KIND SUPPORT WOULD COUNT AS WELL.

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO START A MEDDLING WITH THE OPERATIONS OF THE FARMERS' MARKET, THE CARMEL INTERNATIONAL ARTS FESTIVAL -- THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS.

I'M HAPPY TO SUPPORT THEM. I DON'T WANT TO THREATEN TO CUT AWAY FUNDING FROM THESE GREAT ORGANIZATIONS UNLESS WE HAVE TO MAKE THEM CHANGE OUR BYLAWS AND PUT SOMEBODY ON THE BOARD THERE.

I UNDERSTAND WHERE THIS CAME FROM CAN I BUT I THINK AT THIS TIME THE BEST THING WOULD BE TO VOTE ON THIS, I WOULD VOTE NO, AND AS I UNDERSTAND IT TAKES A SIMPLE MAJORITY FOR US TO VOTE ON THE MATTER. IF YOU WANT TO VOTE ON IT

TONIGHT IT IS A POSSIBILITY TO. >> MR. VICE PRESIDENT?

>> I KNOW THAT COUNCILOR JOSHI ASKED, TELL US MORE ABOUT THIS PRECURSOR FOR ME IT WAS HEARING ALL OF THE LEGAL HURDLES THAT I JUST DON'T SEE A WAY TO OVERCOME.

ALSO IN THE BACK OF MY MIND THIS IS AN ORDINANCE THAT WAS BREATHED LIFE INTO BECAUSE IT WAS A REACTION TO SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED, AND I THINK JUST AS A PRACTICE PROBABLY -- FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, THINGS ARE OPERATING BUT REALLY HAVING BEEN INVOLVE IN MULTIPLE NONPROFITS AS YOU ARE, THAT ARE DOING A SERVICE

[01:40:03]

FROM THE COMMUNITY, WITHOUT THESE NONPROFIT ORGANIZATIONS, AND YOU HAPPEN TO BE A CITY COUNCILOR, CARING CITIZENS I JUST WANT TO PUT ON A FESTIVAL TO RECOGNIZE, THESE PEOPLE DO NOT NEED A CITY COUNCILOR OR A CITY COUNCIL APPOINTEE LOOKING OVER THEIR SHOULDER. I SHOULD HAVE NEVER EVER EVEN CONSIDERED THIS IN THE BEGINNING.

IT'S ACTUALLY I THINK SOMEWHAT INSULTING.

SO I HOPE WE MAKE A MOTION TO VOTE ON THIS TONIGHT, AND I

WOULD VOTE NO. >> OPEN TO MOVING INTO NIGHT IF THAT IS THE WILL OF THE COUNCIL, IS THERE A DISCUSSION ABOUT TWEAKING OR EDITING LANGUAGE OR SHIFTING AFFILIATES TO MEAN

SOMETHING ELSE? >> THE ONE THING WE DID SAY, WE RIGHT NOW CAN REQUIRE ANY ENTITY A REPORT.

AND WE DO IT ALL THE TIME. IF THAT WOULD MAKE A --

>> I WAS IN THE CAR AT WORK TRYING TO GET TO PLACES, NOT BEING ABLE TO HAVE THE CONTEXT OF WHAT THE DISCUSSION WAS, IF WE ARE GOING TO MOVE IT TONIGHT WE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT. THE TALK OF NARROWING OR OWNING SOME OF THESE THINGS OR IF IT'S JUST -- OF THERE IS A NEED OR A FIXING TO DO MOVING FORWARD, OR IT COULD BE SOMETHING ELSE.

JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT HAPPENED TODAY.

YOU MIGHT THINK YOU COUNSELOR. I THINK THE DISCUSSION WAS THAT I KNOW FOR THE ARTS AGREEMENTS THEY ARE PROVIDING REPORTS OF FINANCIAL INFORMATION ALREADY TO THE ADMINISTRATION, IF THERE IS AN ORGANIZATION THAT WE CHOSE TO SUPPORT, WE CAN DIRECT EXACTLY WHAT THE FUNDS WILL BE USED FOR. WE CAN ALSO REQUIRE ADDITIONAL REPORTING OF, OURITIS THAT ARE PUBLICLY AVAILABLE FOR THESE ORGANIZATIONS AS WELL. I THINK FOR ME IT CAME DOWN TO ADDING MAYBE JUST SWITCHING TO A REPORTING REQUIREMENT, BECAUSE WE CAN ALREADY DEMAND THAT. AND I DON'T BELIEVE IT HAS TO BE CATCHING FIRE FOR US TO DO THAT JOB AND ASK FOR THAT TYPE OF REPORTING WHEN WE FEEL IT IS NEEDED, OR EVERY TIME.

>> IT WAS DISCUSSED, THAT WAS DISCUSSED.

AND THE CONVERSATION ABOUT WHY WE WOULD ASK THIS, WHEN WE WOULD ASK FOR SUCH REPORTING AND HOW DO WE CLARIFY THAT SO ALL POTENTIAL PARTNERS MOVING FORWARD, TO YOUR POINT, COUNSELOR YOU HAVE DONE NON-FOR-PROFITS FOR A LONGER TIME, EVEN ASKING WHICH ONES WERE DENIED, IS THERE NO REASON TO KIND OF HAVE LIKE A BALANCE APPROACH TO THAT? I JUST WONDER ABOUT THAT TRANSPARENCY OF, HEY, WE ARE DOING THIS FOR EVERYONE, EVERYBODY OPERATES UNDER THE SAME RULES, WHEREAS WE CAN ASK YOU FOR SOMETHING IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN WE SHOULD ASK YOU FOR SOMETHING, OR WE ARE YOU KNOW GOING TO ASK YOU FOR SOMETHING, JUST SO THERE IS A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IS REQUIRED OF YOU IN DOING THAT.

>> I MEAN WE CAN CERTAINLY DO THAT.

BUT LET ME JUST USE AN EXAMPLE OF CARMEL FEST, THIS CITY PAYS FOR THE FIREWORKS EACH AND EVERY YEAR.

THAT IS IN OUR BUDGET, IT'S IDENTIFIED IN THE BUDGET.

IF YOU ARE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THAT YOU COULD RAISE THAT ISSUE, BUT NOW SAY -- I MEAN THAT IS SOMETHING WE DO FOR THE COMMUNITY. ALL OF THIS IS FOR THE COMMUNITY. IF THERE WERE NO FIREWORKS, SOMEBODY IS GOING TO HEAR ABOUT IT AND IT PROBABLY WOULD BE THE MAYOR. SO IN THAT SITUATION TO SAY YOU HAVE TO SUBMIT A REPORT ANNUALLY OR WHATEVER, IT JUST SEEMS REDUNDANT TO ME A LITTLE DISRESPECTFUL.

THEY ARE ACTUALLY DOING US -- HAVING DONE THAT THEY ARE DOING US A HUGE FAVOR. I USED TO SELL SPARK BUTTONS TO

RAISE MONEY FOR FIREWORKS. >> I DID THAT TOO.

[LAUGHTER] >> TO HAVE THAT PART OF THE BUDGET NOW THAT WE ARE APPROVING IS A HUGE BENEFIT.

I JUST WANT TO BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT THE MESSAGE WE SEND, CERTAINLY WE NEED TRANSPARENCY I AGREE.

>> I DO WANT TO SAY FROM USING THE TERM DISRESPECTFUL, THE PREMISE OF US BEING ABLE TO LOOK BACK AT WHAT WE PAID TO PROVIDE THE FIREWORKS AND RECONCILED THE FIREWORKS WE BOUGHT IS SOMETHING THAT EXISTS WITHIN THE CITY'S BOOKS AND LEDGERS.

[01:45:01]

WE HAVE TO VALIDATE WHAT WE ARE PURCHASING THERE.

I AM COMFORTABLE MOVING THIS TONIGHT BASED ON YOUR GUYS'S REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION. FROM THE PREMISE OF, THE BREADTH OF THIS IS BROAD, I THINK IT WAS WRITTEN AND FILED IN THE MIDST OF ALL THINGS. AND THE IDEA OF WHAT WAS THE SHAPE AND HOW DO WE FIX IT AND WHAT DID WE DO, THE TENOR AGAIN OF MAKING STATEMENTS THROUGH OFFICIAL ACTION WE CAN TAKE, CAN PUT US IN A POSITION WHERE GETTING A COUNCILOR ON THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT BOARD CAN HELP US OUT, THE DIRECT ROLE HELPS THE CHRISTKINDLMARKT. THE WANTED THAT HAS A NONPROFIT.

I DO THINK IN SOME CAPACITY THE -- WHAT WE HAVE MOVED ON, IT IS A GREAT NUMBER TO STOP ON FROM THE INDIANA PERSPECTIVE BY THE WAY, THE IDEA THERE IS STILL A GAP IN OUR ABILITY TO MANAGE OR VALIDATE MONEY THAT GOES TO SPECIFIC ENTITIES STILL IS THERE. WE MAY HAVE RECTIFIED IT BY TALKING ABOUT IT OPENLY ON THE RECORD AND DOING OTHER THINGS.

BUT I DON'T WANT TO LOSE THE PREMISE THAT THIS WAS FILED.

I THINK WHAT YOU HAVE SHARED TONIGHT SOUNDS REASONABLE.

I THINK THE BREADTH IS AN ISSUE, AND I'M HAPPY TO TAKE A MOTION.

>> MR. PRESIDENT, I WOULD MOVE THAT -- AIN'T GONNA WANT TO GET THIS RIGHT. SO AT THIS 31ST READING OF ORDINANCE D2772-25, THAT WE MOVED THE PEOPLE'S BUSINESS, AND I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THIS MOTION, MAKING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, THAT WE APPROVE THIS MOTION CALCULATOR D2772-25.

>> SECOND. >> ANY DISCUSSION? MOTION FAILS. IT IS NOT PASSED UNANIMOUSLY.

THANK YOU. >> DON'T SAY THAT OFTEN DO YOU.

>> YEAH, BRUTAL. AS FIRST VICE PRESIDENT, I FEEL FOR PRESIDENTS -- WE WILL MOVE ON TO ITEM B, REMAINS IN LAND

[12.c. Fifth Reading of Ordinance D-2843-26; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana Amending Carmel City Code Chapter 8, Article 4, Section 8-44, Chapter 3, Article 2, Section 3-58, and Chapter 8, Article 4, Section 8-40; Sponsors: Councilors Aasen, Minnaar, Snyder, Taylor, Worrell. In the Land Use and Special Studies Committee. (Meeting date 10/15/26)]

USE, ITEM C, FIFTH READING OF ORDINANCE D2843-26, WHICH COMES BACK FROM LAND USE WITH A POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION.

TONIGHT, COUNCILOR JOSHI GIVE US AN UPDATE GOING THROUGH THE COMMITTEE REPORTS BUT IF THERE'S ANY OTHER DISCUSSION, ON JUST POTENTIAL THINGS TO LOOK AT AS THIS COMES BACK TO US AT THE

NEXT MEETING, COUNCILOR? >> SORRY FOR PREEMPTING THAT JUST A BIT. I WANTED TO MAKE SURE I ANSWERED SOME OF THE PUBLIC'S CONCERNS RIGHT OFF THE BAT WITH SOME OF THOSE CHANGES. HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN FURTHER

DISCUSSION. >> FIRST OF ALL THANK YOU, DOCTOR JOSHI HAS BEEN GREAT TO WORK ON THIS AND I APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE. I KNOW THIS HAS TAKEN A LONG TIME BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO GET THIS RIGHT.

I SENT SOME LANGUAGE TO THE WHOLE COUNCIL, I WANTED TO SPEAK WITH SERGEY, BUT I AM GOING TO SUGGEST, AND I WILL MAKE THIS IN THE NEXT MEETING, MOTION TO AMEND, SUBSECTION C4B2 LINE 168 PAGE 4, THE AMENDED AS FOLLOWS, CLASS ONE AND TWO E-BIKES SHOULD NOW BE OPERATED BY PERSONS YOUNGER THAN 12 YEARS OF AGE, THAT IS A PART THAT YOU WOULD ADD, AFTER THAT IT ALREADY SAYS CLASS THREE BIKES SHOULD NOT BE OPERATED SOMEBODY YOUNGER THAN 15 YEARS OF AGE. THERE WERE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT ENFORCEABILITY WHEN IT COMES TO AGE, RESTRICTIONS, HOW TO LOOK AT SOMEBODY AND KNOW WHAT AGE THEY ARE.

I UNDERSTAND THAT CAN BE TOUGH BUT WE HAVE THAT IN OTHER PARTS OF THIS ORDINANCE. WE HAVE AN AGE FOR WEARING HELMETS, AN AGE FOR THE CLASS THREE BIKES AND I THINK IT WOULD SEND A MESSAGE THAT IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AGE KID RIDING AN ELECTRIC BICYCLE WITH A THROTTLE AND A VERY HEAVY TRAFFIC AREA IS JUST KIND OF WAY TOO DANGEROUS.

I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE ADD THAT.

ALSO IN ADDITION I KNOW THERE WAS SOME TALK AT COMMITTEE, AND I SPOKE WITH COUNCILOR LOCKE ABOUT THIS, HOW DO WE ADDRESS THE UNICYCLES. KNOW WE HAD SOME PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THIS. THEY ARE IN A WEIRD CLASS BECAUSE OF THE STATE WHERE THE STATE -- AND ALL ESSENCE, BY SPEED AND POWER, THE STATE DOES NOT REALLY CATEGORIZE THEM AS

[01:50:03]

OUT OF. THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED ON THE STREETS BUT WE DON'T NECESSARILY WANT TO PUT THEM ON THE SIDEWALKS WHERE IT'S VERY NARROW.

THERE IS A WEIRD AREA WHERE RIGHT NOW THERE IS NOWHERE THEY ARE ALLOWED TO OPERATE, AND COUNCILOR LOCKE IS TRYING TO WORK THROUGH SOME LANGUAGE THAT COULD ADDRESS THAT.

ULTIMATELY AS CHANGING STATE LAW WOULD FIX IT BECAUSE THEY SHOULD BE CATEGORIZED AS AN E MODO, AND WE DON'T NECESSARILY NEED THEM IN THE VERY BUSY NARROW TRAILS. THAT'S JUST MY THOUGHTS ON THAT AND THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HARD WORK THE COMMITTEE HAS DONE.