12.a. Twenty-seventh Reading of Ordinance D-2772-25; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Adopting a New Article 8 Under Chapter 2 of the Carmel City Code; Sponsors: Councilors Aasen, Ayers, Minnaar, Snyder and Worrell. Remains in the Finance, Utilities and Rules Committee.

[12.a. Twenty-seventh Reading of Ordinance D-2772-25; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, Adopting a New Article 8 Under Chapter 2 of the Carmel City Code; Sponsors: Councilors Aasen, Ayers, Minnaar, Snyder and Worrell. Remains in the Finance, Utilities and Rules Committee.]

>> THANK YOU. >> OLD BUSINESS.

TWENTY-SEVENTH READING OF ORDINANCE D-2772-25; REMAINS IN FINANCE. YES, GO ON.

>> SINCE WE USED THIS ITEM ON THE AGENDA LAST TIME TO TALK

ABOUT THE -- >> OH, YES.

>> I WOULD LOVE TO GIVE AN UPDATE BASED ON KIND OF FEEDBACK AFTER OUR MEETING LAST TIME I SENT NOTICE TO OUR COUNCIL THAT'S DOING THE REVIEW AT DENTONS THAT WE HAD IMPOSED OR MOVED THE MOTION TO HAVE AUGUST 20TH DEADLINE.

INCLUDING OUR COUNCIL ON THAT JUST SO THAT THEY WOULD SEE THAT THAT WENT THROUGH AND THEY RESPONDED AND SAID WE HAVE RECEIVED THAT AND UNDERSTAND AND THEN WE'RE TASKED WITH GIVING US FEEDBACK BACK IF THEY THOUGHT THERE WAS ANY REASON TO EXTEND IT FURTHER. THEY GAVE A SHORT EMAIL WHICH I FORWARDED TO EVERYBODY TODAY REQUESTING THE ADDITIONAL THREE WEEKS TO TAKE IT TO SEPTEMBER 10TH TO GIVE THEM TIME TO WORK ON THE FINAL REPORT AND THEN DO ANY FOLLOW-UP AS THEY GET THAT SAID TO GET IT INTO A FINAL DRAFT FORM.

SO I SENT THAT FORWARD, HAPPY TO READ THAT INTO THE RECORD IF YOU WANT TO GO THAT ROUTE OR I'M HAPPY TO DISCUSS IF THERE'S MORE BUT I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE TAKE THEIR FEEDBACK AND EXTEND IT TO THAT AS I WOULD HAVE LAST TIME AS WELL BUT BASED ON THEIR KIND OF OBJECTIVE REVIEW OF WHERE THEY STAND AND WHAT THEY THINK THE REPORT SHOULD BE AT THE END THEY DID ASK IF WE COULD

EXTEND THAT TO SEPTEMBER. >> DO YOU WANT TO PUT THAT INTO

A MOTION? >> I'M INCLINED TO STICK WITH THE ORIGINAL DEADLINE IF WE ASK FOR A FEW WEEKS I GUESS IT'S NOT THE END OF THE WORLD BUT I DON'T SEE A REASON WHY AFTER 14 MONTHS WE COULDN'T STICK TO THE ORIGINAL DEADLINE BUT I'LL ADD THIS AND IT'S SOMETHING I FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT THAT ONCE THE REPORT IS DELIVERED AND WHETHER THAT'S IN AUGUST OR SEPTEMBER, I THINK THAT ITEM A NEEDS TO GO TO THE FINANCE COMMITTEE IMMEDIATELY FOR -- TO DECIDE WHETHER WE'RE MOVING FORWARD ON THIS OR NOT AND I THINK IT'S BEEN ON THE AGENDA LONG ENOUGH AND I THINK THAT ONCE THE REPORT IS GIVEN FOR THE CHRIS KENDALL MARKET INVESTIGATION THAT THERE'S REALLY NO OTHER INFORMATION NEEDED TO DECIDE ABOUT ITEM A.

IT'S BEEN ON THE AGENDA LONG ENOUGH.

[01:05:05]

>> SO MY CONCERNS ABOUT THIS IS THEY RAN OUT OF MONEY IN DEC DECEMBER.

EVERYTHING -- LAST POSSIBLE ITEM WAS SUPPLIED TO THEM PRIOR TO JUNE. WE'RE NOW IN AUGUST.

I MEAN THE IEDC INVESTIGATION OVER A MASSIVE STATE-WIDE AGENCY ONLY TOOK 6 MONTHS. THE JFK REPORT, THE JFK ASSANATION ONLY TOOK 10 MONTHS. THIS HAS BEEN EXCESSIVE AND I'M CONCERNED SINCE THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO BILL ANYMORE HOURS THAT THEY HAVEN'T DEDICATED THE TIME AND STAFF TO THIS TO COMPLETE IT. BY STICKING THEM TO THE DEADLINE, I DID READ THE EMAIL AND THEY STATE THAT SO THEY THEN HAVE TO DEDICATE ADDITIONAL TIME AND STAFF TO THIS TO COMPLETE THEIR COMMITMENT TO COMPLETE THIS FOR THE PRICE OF 125,000 THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO REORGANIZE STAFF TO DO THAT THEN THEY SHOULD DO THAT AND THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT PREVIOUSLY. THERE'S NO REASON WHY THIS REPORT HASN'T BEEN COMPLETED BY NOW.

THEY NEED TO STEP IT UP AND COMPLETE THE REPORT BY AUGUST

20TH IS MY OPINION. >> SO I'M GOING TO READ THE EMAIL JUST SO YOU HAVE IT, DEAR RYAN, WE APPRECIATE THE NEED FOR A DEADLINE TO COMPLETE THIS PROJECT AND WE HAVE BEEN WORKING DILIGENTLY BY COMPLETING THE REPORT BY THE AUGUST 20TH DEADLINE CSET BY THE COUNCIL HOWEVER WE WOULD BENEFIT FOR AN EXTENSION TO HAVE ANY FLEXIBILITY TO MAY BE NECESSARY ONCE WE HAVE THE REPORT IN NEAR FINAL FORM AND TO PRIOR YOUR PERSONAL AND OTHER PROFESSIONAL COMMITMENTS WE ACKNOWLEDGE THAT OUR ENGAGEMENT AGREEMENT CONTAINS A NOT TO EXCEED CAP ON THE FEES. WE RESPECTFUL LY REQUEST AN EXTENSIO TO SEPTEMBER 10TH. THANK YOU FOR ADVANCE IN PATIENCE AND CONTINUED RUST IN THIS PROCESS IN REGARDS THE COUNCIL. I READ IT BECAUSE WE'RE INTERACTING WITH HUMAN BEINGS. THIS IS A SIDE QUEST FOR EVERYBODY INVOLVED. ME SPECIFICALLY.

YOU ALL SPECIFICALLY AS WE GOT A MILLION OTHER THINGS TO DO WHICH IS WHY WE HIRED A THEAIRD PARTY AND BECAUSE WE WERE INCAPABLE AS A BODY OF PUTTING OURSELVES IN A POSITION TO DO THIS OURSELVES.

ALL OF US SAID SOMETHING RELATED TO THIS THAT MATTERED AND TURNS OUT EXCEPT FOR ME. ON THE END WHEN WE SET UP THE ORIGINAL COMMITTEE IT HAD TO BE TERESA SHANNON AND MYSELF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN ON COUNCIL BEFORE HAVE RELATIONSHIP THAT IS MATTER TO THIS PROCESS AND OTHERS OF YOU HAD FAMILY MEMBERS AND OTHERS RELATED TO YOUR AFFILIATE ENTITIES THAT HAD NOT PEMPLEED THEIR FUNCTIONS. I SHARE THAT AS WE LOOK AT WHAT A WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE, GET TO THE END OF SOMETHING WE STARTED WITH THE RIGHT OUTPUT THE PEOPLE WE HIRED WE TRUSTED TO DO THIS SAID THEY NEED A COUPLE MORE WEEKS TO FINALIZE THE REPORT. WE CAN SUBMIT WHATEVER COMES BACK AND WE CAN HAVE A HALF DONE REPORT AND WE CAN DECIDE ON WHATEVER METRIC WE WANT TO, HOW TO MANAGE THIS INVESTIGATION BECAUSE IT IS OUR INVESTIGATION. AND IF THIS IS TURNING INTO SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE TURNED OVER SO WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT, THAT SEEMS RIGHT TO USE OTHER REPORTS AND OTHER VENUES, MILLION DOLLAR REPORT THAT IS STARTED AS ONE THING AND BECAME SOMETHING ELSE RELATED TO WHATEVER WE DO IN OUR DAY JOBS DOESN'T FEEL APPROPRIATE FIRST AND FOREMOST BUT PUTS US IN A POSITION WE'RE PLAYING A SUBJECTIVE GAME WITH SOMETHING WE TRIED TO SET UP TO BE OBJECTIVE.

SO WHILE I HEAR YOU AND I APPRECIATE IT AND WE CAN DECIDE AS A BODY TO DO WHATEVER WE WANT TO DO TODAY, THERE ARE NINE OF US TO VOTE. I TEND TO ERROR ON THE SIDE OF TRUSTING THE PEOPLE WE PUT INTO POSITIONS TO DO THINGS NO MATTER WHAT THAT IS, WHETHER IT BE AN INVESTIGATION BY A THIRD PARTY FIRM THAT IS DOING OTHER THINGS THAT RECEIVED A CONTRACT PROBABLY TOO WELL NEGOTIATED TO KEEP THE COSTS DOWN OVER TIME.

BUT HERE WE ARE. SO YES, WE CAN MAKE A DECISION BASED ON HOWEVER WE FEEL LIKE WE HAVE TO BASED ON WHATEVER DETERMINATION IS DRIVING OUR AGENDA OR A MISSION OR A VISION.

I WOULD SET UP AND TASKED WITH MANAGING THIS TO THE END.

I KNOW IT'S BEEN UNCOMFORTABLE. I SAID IT LAST TIME IT HAS NOT BEEN FUN FOR ME IN ANY CAPACITY. IT'S ACTUALLY OF ALL THE THINGS WE'VE DONE PROBABLY PUT ME IN A POSITION TO HAVE THE LEAST AMOUNT OF EFFORT, ENERGY AND LOVE FOR MY CITY.

PART OF SACRIFICE AND PART OF TAKING AN OFFICE IS DOING THINGS

[01:10:03]

WHEN THEY ARE HARD OR WHEN THEY MIGHT COME BACK AND PUT PEOPLE THAT CARE ABOUT US OR WILL HELP US DO THINGS THAT MATTER TO US WHETHER THEY BE PERSONAL OR POLITICAL OR GOVERNMENTAL IN A POSITION WHERE WE HAVE TO SAY HARD THINGS.

THAT BEING SAID, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE WHEN IT COMES BACK. I THINK WE OWE IT TO THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN A PART OF THIS SO FAR INCLUDING THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OR ADMINISTRATION TO LET THE PEOPLE PUT THE FINAL PRODUCT IN THE FINAL FORM BEFORE THEY SEND IF BACK IF THEY SAY IT'S THREE WEEKS THAT THEY NEED AFTER 14 MONTHS AFTER A LAWSUIT AFTER AN APPEAL AFTER TAKING SIX MONTHS TO GET TO A POINT WHERE THEY SCHEDULED THE PROCESS OF GETTING ALL NINE OF US IN FRONT OF THEM TO ASK WHAT DIRECTION TO GO I THINK IT MAKES REASONABLE SENSE TO GRANT THAT AND I WOULD ADVOCATE AS THE PERSON YOU PUT IN CHARGE TO DO THAT AND MANAGE THIS THAT WE GIVE THEM THOSE WEEKS BECAUSE I THINK IT'S WORTH WHILE ENOUGH FOR THE OUTPUT FOR THEM THAT THEY ASKED FOR IT SPECIFICALLY.

THEY COULD HAVE NOT ASKED FOR THAT AND THEY WORKED UP UNTIL TODAY TO SEE IF IT WAS SOMETHING THEY NEEDED TO ASK FOR OR NOT AND THEY REQUESTED IT. SO I TEND TO TAKE PEOPLE AT FACE VALUE, GIVE PEOPLE THAT WE PUT IN HARD POSITIONS THEMSELVES THAT GRACE AND AFFORD THEM THE ABILITY TO FINISH THIS OUT RIGHT SO THAT WE DON'T SIT WITH A DEEPER, DARKER CLOUD OF JUDGMENT IN DECISION MAKING THAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PEOPLE OF CARMEL INDIANA.

I MAKE A MOTION TO EXTEND THE DATE TO SEPTEMBER 10TH.

>> SO I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE MOTION AND MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE ASKED THIS LAST TIME DEFINING WHAT DONE MEANS FOR THE INVESTIGATION. DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE REPORT IS HANDED TO COUNCIL? IN A FINALIZED FORM OR DOES THAT MEAN THEY'VE COMPLETED IT AND IF SO WHERE WOULD A PRESENTATION TAKE PLACE. I'M LOOKING AT THE CALENDER HERE OBVIOUSLY WE'RE NOT HAVING A MEETING.

>> THERE WILL BE NO PRESENTATION FOR A WHILE AFTER THE REPORT IS FINALIZED IT WILL GO TO THE COUNCIL'S LEGAL COUNCIL WHO WILL SHARE IT WITH THE CITY'S LEGAL COUNCIL WHO WILL MAKE SURE THERE'S NO SENSITIVE INVESTIGATION, REDACT WHAT THEY FEEL NEEDS TO BE REDACTED THAT COULD HARM INDIVIDUALS AND THEN

IT WILL COME TO US. >> I SUPPORT ALL THAT BUT HOW LONG ARE WE -- ONCE WE GOT THE REPORT I WOULDN'T WANT IT TO BE THREE MONTHS LATER WHEN WE CAN DISCUSS IT.

>> SO BY PROCESS WE COULD CALL A MEETING OF THE COMMITTEE TO

REPORT IT TO THE COMMITTEE. >> SO THAT WOULDN'T BE A PUBLIC

MEETING, WOULD IT. >> I AM UNCERTAIN WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. IT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD NAVIGATE WITH COUNCIL WHEN WE GET THERE.

I WILL LIKELY FULLY ADVOCATE FOR THE RELEASE OF THIS IN WHATEVER FORM IT IS TO THE PUBLIC. I THINK THAT IS NECESSARY.

BUT I DO THINK THE WAY THAT IT WAS SET UP ON THE FRONT END THE COMMITTEE HAD TO MEET TO RECEIVE THE REPORT TO DISCUSS WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE TO GET THAT FEEDBACK IN OPEN SESSION BECAUSE THAT'S

HOW THOSE COMMITTEES ARE FORMED. >> I UNDERSTAND.

I JUST WANTED TO SAY THE REPORT NEEDS TO BE DONE ON THIS DATE AND THEN WELL IT'S DONE BUT WE'RE STILL FORMATTING IT BUT IT HASN'T GONE TO COUNCIL YET BUT WE HAVEN'T MET ABOUT IT AND THEN

SIX MONTHS GO BY. >> SO THE MOTION MADE AT THIS TIME LAST TIME WHICH IS WHY I PICKED THIS LAST TIME IF WE'RE FOLLOWING PROCESS THAT PROCESS WORK IS TO TURN OVER THE REPORT IN IT'S FULL FORM TO OUR COUNCIL ON THE DATE OF THE -- SO WE WILL RECEIVE THE FULL REPORT IN ITS FINAL FORM ON SEPTEMBER 10TH IF THE MOTION THAT I JUST MADE CARRIES OR AUGUST 20TH IF IT

DOES NOT. >> SO FULL FINALIZED REPORT IS WHAT IT MEANS AND ANY DISCUSSION WOULD BE LATER DETERMINED.

>> BY THE COUNCIL. >> YES.

>> MR. PRESIDENT. I HAVE A QUESTION.

THE MOTIONS CAN BE MADE TO DELAY THE INVESTIGATION.

I'D LIKE TO WAIT. WE JUST GOT THIS EMAIL TODAY.

YOU KNOW FROM DENTON. I HAVE QUESTIONS FROM THE D DENTON. I'D LIKE TO ASK THE A TTATTORNIF WE EXTEND IT, THEN WHAT. WHAT'S THE PRODUCT GOING TO BE AND WHAT RESOURCES ARE THEY GOING TO COMMIT TO FINISHING IT SO I ASK THAT WE DELAY TO THE NEXT COUNCIL MEETING TO SEE WHERE THEY ARE AND GIVE US SOME TIME TO TALK TO DENTON ATTORNEYS SINCE WE JUST GOT THE QUESTION TODAY.

I DO HAVE QUESTIONS THERE SEEMS TO BE LOOK AT INVOICES FOUR OF FIVE MONTH DELAY. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY WEREN'T DOING WORK. I CAN'T SEE IT AND THEN THE LAST MINUTE PUBLIC RECORD REQUEST ON APRIL 29TH IN THE MAYOR'S OFFICE

[01:15:04]

AND WITHIN 30 DAYS THEY SENT 6,000 DOCUMENTS WAS THAT TO DELAY TO GO THROUGH THOSE 6,000 DOCUMENTS AND THEN I GO BACK TO JULY 7TH WHEN WE VOTED TO INVESTIGATE THE COUNCIL AND I HAVE ALL MY EMAILS AND TEXT MESSAGES AND EVERYTHING AND THERE HASN'T BEEN A SINGLE RECORD REQUEST LOOKING AT THE COUNCIL AT ALL SO IS THAT GOING TO BE PART OF THE DELAY AOR ARE WE COMPLETELY FOCUSED ON THE MAYOR.

>> SO WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO CALL THEM AND ASK ANY OF THESE QUESTIONS AND I RELAYED MANY OF THE THINGS YOU SHARED TO THEM OVER THE COURSE IN TIME AND PART OF IT IS THAT THERE'S BEEN TWO REQUESTS THAT HAVE COME THROUGH TO THEM THROUGH THE CITY ADMINISTRATION THROUGHOUT THIS AND FIRST WAS INITIAL REQUEST TO THE DOCUMENTS RELATED TO IT THAT WERE EASY AND PROCEDURAL AND ONE ON APRIL 29TH WAS FULLY FORMED AFTER THE DISCUSSION AND ALL THE PEOPLE AND THEY DID INTERVIEWS AND THAT REQUEST TO OUR POINT WAS ON APRIL 29TH THEY RECEIVED IN RESPONSE TO THAT REQUEST SOME FORMAT OF DOCUMENTS I THINK IT WAS PDF, I HAVE NOT SEEN IT.

I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT NUMBER. YOU MAY HAVE.

I HAVE NOT. SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 6,000 AND 7,000 PAGES OF DOCUMENTS AND ONE SINGLE PDF IN RESPONSE.

SO THEY HAD SPENT THE MARGET OF THE LAST TWO MONTHS WORKING THROUGH ALL OF THOSE TO SEE WHAT THEY ARE IF THEY WERE RESPONSIVE WORKING THROUGH AND TAKING NOTES AS THEY WENT AND WRITING THE OUTPUT OF THE MEMO WHICH IS THE REPORT ON THE BACK END AS THEY WERE GOING THROUGH ALL OF THOSE BUT IT TAKES A LOT OF TIME TO GO THROUGH DOCUMENTS IN THAT FORMAT.

I WOULD WELCOME ALL OF YOU TO SHARE THAT'S WHY WE SET IT UP THE WAY WE DID AND WHY WE WAITED TO HAVE A REQUEST UNTIL EVERYBODY HAD HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TO THE COUNCIL THAT IS DOING THIS REPORT.

WHILE THIS BALL HAS BEEN IN MY COURT IT HAS ALSO BEEN IN YOURS.

EVERY TIME YOU HAVE SHARED, I HAVE SHARED.

WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAVE SHARED ON THE BACK END, I DON'T KNOW.

PART OF THE ISSUE HERE IS THAT THE IDEA OF A SECONDARY REVIEW OF ANYBODY ELSE WOULD BE AFTER THEY GOT THROUGH THE FIRST RUN OF THE SPECIFIC REQUESTS OF THE CITY WHICH WOULD BE AFTER THE POINT WE WERE AT NOW. SO IN SOME CAPACITY LOOKING HISTORICALLY AT THIS, DELAYS OUTSIDE OF THE CONTROL AGAIN IT WAS A NOT TO EXCEED CONTRACT SET ON THE FRONT END BASED ON THE INVESTIGATIONS THAT WERE OCCURRING IN A VERY STRONG ARMED NEGOTIATION NOT TO EXCEED BECAUSE OF THE COST IT WOULD TAKE IF IT WAS MORE AND AGAIN I WOULD ADVOCATE FOR THE PREMISE THAT WE ASKED FOR FEEDBACK FROM THE PEOPLE IN THE POSITION OF AUTHORITY TO DO THIS AND THEY ASKED FOR THREE MORE WEEKS.

YOU COULD HAVE ASKED IN THE LAST MONTH YOU COULD HAVE ASKED SINCE JUNE 1ST WHEN YOU BROUGHT UP TWO DAYS AFTER THE LAST REQUEST OR WHATEVER IT WAS, MAY 1ST WHERE WE WERE AND YOU COULD HAVE ASKED THEN AND YOU DIDN'T. YOU KEEP CONTINUOUSLY ASKING ON

THIS DIAS IN A WAY. >> I GOT THE EMAIL TODAY.

>> THAT'S RIGHT. >> NOT THREE WEEKS AGO WE COULD

HAVE TALKED ABOUT BUT IT'S POOF. >> AS SOON AS I RECEIVED IT I SENT IT OUT AND PART OF THAT THEY WERE WORKING TO SEE IF WE COULD GET IT DONE AND WE ARE NOT.

WE DO HAVE ANOTHER MEETING ON AUGUST 19TH.

YOU ARE FREE TO CALL THEM AND ASK THEM ANY QUESTIONS YOU WANT.

AGAIN, THE PRESSURE THAT YOU'RE PUTTING ON THIS THING I THINK HAS ALREADY WORKED. AUGUST 20TH DATE PUT THEM IN A POSITION WHERE THEY UNDERSTAND, THEY APOLOGIZED TO ME, WHICH IS BY PROXY AN APOLOGY TO ALL OF US FOR THE DELAY THAT IT'S TAKEN AND NOT JUST US HERE BUT EVERYBODY THAT'S BEEN APART OF THIS FOR 15 MONTHS. I DON'T KNOW THAT I THINK THE WAY THAT WE'VE GONE ABOUT THIS OVER THE LAST MONTH IS APPROPRIATE OR NICE OR KIND OR CONSCIOUSNESS TO THE WAY THAT WE ARE TREATING OUR CITY. IF THEY ARE ASKING FOR 3 WEEKS I THINK IT MAKES REASONABLE SENSE TO EITHER APPROVE THAT MOTION OR NOT. TO BE HONEST WITH YOU AT THIS POINT I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU DECIDE.

I DON'T. I CAN ADVOCATE WHAT I THINK IS RIGHT. I CAN DO THAT FOREVER.

I WILL DO THAT FOREVER. NO MATTER WHAT THE ISSUE AND YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU THINK IS RIGHT BY WHATEVER METRIC YOU ARE DEEMING THAT APPROPRIATE TO YOUR CONSCIOUS.

>> ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE A MOTION.

I'M SECONDING THE MOTION. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO EXTEND IT,

VOTE IT DOWN. >> WAIT A MINUTE, MR. PRESIDENT,

NOT EVERYONE HAS HAD A CHANCE. >> WELL SPEAK THEN.

>> WELL I'VE BEEN WATCHING COUNCILOR JOSHI DOWN THERE

TRYING TO GET A WORD IN. >> THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE THAT AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE, PRESIDENT

[01:20:01]

SNYDER. I DO THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO ME WHEN A PROCESS HAS BEEN PUT IN PLACE TO FOLLOW THE PROCESS.

WE PUT SOME PRESSURE ON THEM TO ASK FOR A DEADLINE, I UNDERSTOOD WHY SOME PEOPLE FELT THAT WAS NECESSARY AND LOW AND BEHOLD YOU'VE GOTTEN THEM TO SAY YES, WE NEED TO GET THIS DONE.

BUT GETTING IT DONE ISN'T THE ENTIRE GOAL.

IT'S GETTING IT DONE RIGHT. YOU CAN DO SOMETHING OR YOU CAN DO IT INCORRECTLY. AND YOU CAN GET SOME HALF DONE REPORT AND YOU CAN HAVE IT UNFILLED AND PEOPLE WILL TAKE IT, DISSECT IT, MISINTERPRET IT, DO WHAT THEY WILL WITH IT AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT OUR INTENTION AS A GROUP AND A BODY THAT WORKS TOGETHER WHEN WE FIRST CAME TOGETHER ON THIS WHICH WAS TO DO THIS IN COLLABORATION WITH ONE ANOTHER IN A KIND AND JUST AND COMPASSIONATE WAY.

THREE WEEKS IS HARDLY AN EXTENSION AFTER THE AMOUNT OF TIME WE'VE GIVEN THEM AND I DO THINK IT IS REASONABLE TO GO AHEAD AND PUSH THAT FORWARD AND I CERTAINLY THINK IT'S AN APPROPRIATE ASK. BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF DATA AND INFORMATION THAT HAS BEEN MADE CLEAR TO US THAT WAS SENT TO THEM NOT WITHIN ONLY A THREE MONTH PERIOD.

I THINK IT'S VERY REASONABLE. >> THANK YOU, DR. JOSHI AND I APOLOGIZE. NORMALLY -- I KNOW I SCREW PROCEDURE UP QUITE A BIT BUT NORMALLY IT'S A MOTION, A SECOND AND THEN DISCUSSION. SO WE NEED TO GET THE SECOND IN.

GOOD. >> THANK YOU.

SO A COUPLE OF THINGS, I'M LISTENING TO WHAT EVERYBODY IS SAYING ON THE DIAS AND I HAVE TO BE HONEST, RYAN, I'M SPEAKING TO YOU DIRECTLY AND YOU AND I TALKED ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT, I DIDN'T REALIZE I COULD PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALLED DENTON MYSELF. I THOUGHT WE WERE OUTSIDE OF THAT SCOPE FOR ME NOT CALLING THEM AND ASKING THEM QUESTIONS, I THOUGHT I WAS DOING THE RIGHT THING.

SO HAVING TALKED TO YOU I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND I UNDERSTAND EVERYBODY THINKS IF WE PUSH THEM ALONG TO THIS DEADLINE THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET SOMETHING THAT'S RIGHT OR JUST OR FAIR AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT.

I BELIEVE THAT IF SOMEONE IS GIVEN A DEADLINE THEY ARE GOING TO DO THE WORK. I DON'T NECESSARILY DISAGREE THAT 3 WEEKS IS A BIG TIME GAP BETWEEN THE TWO AND I TOLD YOU I WAS OPEN TO THAT DISCUSSION. BUT I VEHEMENT LY DISAGREE, NOT VEHEMENTLY DISAGREE, I SHOULDN'T SAY THAT.

I DISAGREE THAT THE PRESSURE WE PUT ON THEM IS GOING TO GIVE US ANYTHING LESS THAN WE PAID THEM TO DO.

I DON'T KNOW. YOU CAN TELL ME IF I'M WRONG BUT AS ATTORNTIES THE LAST THING THEY ARE GOING TO DO IS GIVE US SOMETHING THAT IS HALF BAKED OR HIDING SOMETHING OR SOMETHING IS MISSING OR WHATEVER. I DON'T SEE THAT.

AND SO I'M TALKING TO YOU, RYAN. PERSONALLY.

THIS IS ME BEING JUST AND FAIR AND KIND.

AND YOU KNOW, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO IT.

BUT I REALLY WANT TO SEE US GET THROUGH THIS PROCESS.

I WANT TO SEE US GET THROUGH IT AND I WANT TO SEE IT DONE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. AND I DON'T DISAGREE WITH WHAT TONY SAID UNTIL MAYBE WAITING UNTIL THE 19TH AND SEE HOW MUCH CLOSER THEY ARE TO THAT DATE IF THEY ARE CLOSE TO DOING IT.

I'M OPEN TO THAT TOO BUT IF I COULD CALL DENTON'S MYSELF, I WOULD LIKE TO CALL THEM TOMORROW AND HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS FOR THEM. I DIDN'T KNOW WE COULD DO THAT.

THAT'S ON ME AND I SHOULD HAVE TALKED TO YOU ABOUT THAT.

AND IN ALL FAIRNESS AND HONESTLY, I DON'T THINK IT'S RIGHT TO SAY THAT JUST BECAUSE WE FORCED A DEADLINE ON THEM THAT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE US SOMETHING THAT'S GOOD AND RIGHT AND THAT THEY ARE RUSHING AND DOING THIS BECAUSE FROM JANUARY TO APRIL, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE QUESTION THAT I HAVE.

WHAT WERE YOU DOING BETWEEN JANUARY AND APRIL WAITING IFFER THAT TRAWNCH OF INFORMATION THAT THEY ASKED FOR FROM JANUARY TO APRIL. WHAT WERE THEY DOING IN THAT TIME FRAME? YEAH, NO.

FROM JANUARY TO APRIL WHAT WERE THEY DOING FROM THE LAST INTERVIEW. THAT'S JUST MY FEELINGS.

AND YOU AND I TALKED ABOUT IT OFF THE DIAS.

>> I JUST HAD ONE MORE QUICK COMMENT.

ONE THING THAT I DON'T THINK -- THAT WAS MISSING FROM THAT EMAIL IS THEM SAYING THEY COULDN'T MAKE THE DEADLINE WE HAD SET THAT THEY JUST REQUEST THAT IT WOULD BE EASY FOR THEM FOR THEIR STAFF AND PERSONAL LIVES TO HAVE AN EXTENSION TO SEPTEMBER 10TH.

I AGREE WITH SHANNON THAT THEY ARE NOT UNDER THEIR STANDARDS AS PRA PRACTICING LAW THEY ARE NOT GOING TO PROVIDE A REPORT THAT'S NOT ACCURATE OR COMPLETE WITH THE DEADLINE THAT WE'VE ALREADY SET.

[01:25:02]

SO I AGREE WITH YOU, SHANNON. ONE THING AGAIN THAT WAS NOT MISSING -- THAT WAS MISSING FROM THAT EMAIL WAS THEM SAYING THEY COULDN'T MEET THE DEADLINE THEY ARE JUST REQUESTING ADDITIONAL TIME FOR THEIR OWN STAFFING PURPOSES.

>> MR. PRESIDENT. >> YES, SIR.

>> SO I WANT TO UNDERSTAND COUNCILOR GREEN SO BY TABLING IT IN ESSENCE ISN'T THAT INCREASING THE TIME? OR YOU'RE SAYING YOU WOULD HAVE TIME TO LOOK AT IT BUT THE MOTION AND WHAT WE PASSED LAST MEETING WOULD STILL IT WOULD BE DUE ON THE 20TH IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE THINKING.

>> YEAH, I'D LIKE TO DELAY THE VOTE.

AND WAIT UNTIL I THINK IT'S AUGUST 17TH COUNCIL MEETING OR

19TH. >> BUT IF WE VOTED TO -- THEY GOT THREE DAYS SO THEY GOT TO BE PREPARED.

>> WELL YEAH, I'D RATHER KEEP THE DEADLINE AS IS AND IF THEY COME BACK ON AUGUST 17TH AND SAY NO, WE'RE SO CLOSE WE NEED TWO OR THREE WEEKS WE REEVALUATE WHETHER WE EXTEND IT AT THAT POINT IN TIME AND IT WOULD GIVE ME TIME AND PROBABLY A COUPLE OF OTHER COUNCILLORS AN OPPORTUNITY TO CALL DENTON, THE LAW FIRM AND

ASK THEM QUESTIONS. >> THANK YOU.

I JUST WANTED TO UNDERSTAND THAT BEFORE I MADE MY COMMENTS.

DID I CUT IN FRONT OF YOU? I'M SORRY.

>> CAN I JUST ASK ONE QUICK QUESTION? WHERE DID YOU EMAIL THEM ASKING ABOUT THE DEADLINE AND THEY JUST EMAILED YOU BACK TODAY AT 2:37 IN RESPONSE TO THEY NEEDED

ADDITIONAL TIME. >> WE SAT HERE UNTIL 9 LAST MEET SCPIG EMAILED THEM BEFORE I LEFT THE CHAMBERS AND TURNED THE LIGHTS OFF AND I FOLLOWED UP TWICE SINCE THEN TO SEE HOW THEY WERE DOING TO GET FEEDBACK. I FOLLOWED UP AGAIN YESTERDAY TO SAY HEY, WE'RE MEETING DO YOU HAVE FEEDBACK.

HAD A CALL WTODAY WITH THEM TO TALK ABOUT WHERE THEY WERE ON PROGRESS AND THEY SAID THEY WOULD SEND A FOLLOW-UP EMAIL BASED ON THAT CALL ASKING FOR AN EXTENSION FROM THERE.

I WOULD SAY IF WE ARE NOT GOING TO EXTEND IT BASED ON THEIR FEEDBACK BECAUSE LAWYERS ARE PEOPLE TOO, LAWYERS WILL TURN IN NOT GOOD WORK IF UNDER THE GUN BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO SPECIFICALLY IF THE DEADLINE IS TO TURN IT IN.

I THINK IT IS ABSOLUTELY C CONTINGENT THAT ALL OF YOU REACH OUT AND TALK TO THEM AT THIS POINT.

THE IDEA THAT THIS HAS BEEN HANDLED INAPPROPRIATELY IS HURTFUL, FIRST AND FOREMOST, SPECIFICALLY WHEN NOBODY ASKED HOW IT WAS GOING, WHAT WE WERE DOING, DIDN'T ASK FOR UPDATES.

I DON'T APPRECIATE IT PERSONALLY.

I DON'T APPRECIATE IT AS A COLLEAGUE.

WE ALL HAVE STAKE IN THIS. WE'RE ALL TRYING OUR VERY BEST AT ALL TIMES TO PUT THIS CITY ON THE RIGHT PATH.

THE PREMISE THAT WE WOULD TAKE SOMETHING THAT WE SPENT 15 MONTHS ON PART OF THAT DELAY TO BRING THE HEAT DOWN AND THEN ES ESCALATE THE HEAT INSTAN INSTANTANEOUSLY FOR WHATEVER REASON HAS OCCURRED IN THE LAST MONTH AND A HALF IS BEYOND COMPREHENSION BECAUSE WE SPENT SO MANY TIMES TO DO THEM RIGHT AND FOUGHT ABOUT WEIRD STUFF AND HASHED OUT THINGS IN HURTFUL SAD WAYS AND APOLOGIZED AND COME BACK AROUND TO DO THIS FOR THIS THING THAT HAS BECOME THE ENTIRE STRUCTURE OF WHAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR 15 MONTHS SEEMS VERY ARBITRARY.

AND I TEND TO THINK OF MYSELF AS A MODERATELY RATIONAL PERSON.

I UNDERSTAND MOST SIDES OF MANY THINGS.

I TRY TO LOOK AT EVERYTHING FROM EVERY CONTEXT I POSSIBLY CAN.

I SEE BEHAVIOUR IN DECISION MAKING THAT BAFFLES ME ON THIS.

AND I GET IT. YOU WEREN'T HERE.

I FULLY UNDERSTAND YOU PROBABLY MIGHT NOT HAVE VOTED FOR IT ON THE FRONT END. TOTALLY HEAR YOU.

BUT WE VOTED ON IT AND WE SEE THINGS THROUGH WE DON'T END THEM AT THE END OR TELL SOMEONE THEIR FEEDBACK IS WRONG BECAUSE WE'RE JUST UPSET ABOUT IT. IT DOESN'T SEEM APPROPRIATE TO ME. I'M USING MY TIME HERE BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF I'M GOING TO GIVE ANOTHER ONE OF THESE SPEECHES.

I'M EXHAUSTED. I'M TIRED OF THE WAY THAT WE ARE TREATING EACH OTHER IN OUR CITY WE LIVE HERE, IT'S OUR HOME.

THERE COMES A POINT WHEN WE NEED TO DO WHAT'S RIGHT BECAUSE IT'S RIGHT NOT BECAUSE IT'S EASY OR EX-PEEDENT OR PUTS US IN A POSITION WE NEED TO BE IN THE FUTURE.

BOTTOM LINE WE DO SOMETHING RIGHT AND WE PICK SOMETHING UP BETTER THAN WE FOUND IT AND MOVE ON FROM THERE BUT THIS WHOLE CONCEPT OF FORCING AN ISSUE THAT WE'VE SPENT 15 MONTHS ON SEEMS SO BIZARRELY ARBITRARILY AND SO CONTHRIVED.

I APOLOGIZE FOR SAYING THAT. I APOLOGIZE THAT I HAVE TO SAY

[01:30:03]

IT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE YOU WANT ME TO DO. I CAN ADVOCATE FOR WHAT I THINK IS RIGHT AND WE CAN VOTE ANY WAY YOU WANT TO.

IF YOU LOOK AT ME AND SAY LET'S RETRACT THIS AND VOTE ON AUGUST 17TH BUT Y'ALL GOT TO CALL AND HAVE THE CONVERSATION AND HIDING BEHIND WHATEVER IT IS YOU'RE HIDING ABOUT.

YOU COULD HAVE ALL CALLED THE WHOLE TIME.

>> I'M NOT DONE. RYAN I WAS NOT DOUBTING YOU AND YOUR COMMUNICATION. I KNEW FOR SURE YOU WOULD NOT LEAVE HERE UNTIL YOU HAD THAT EMAIL WRITTEN AND SENT TO THEM.

IT IS UNFORTUNATE IT TOOK TWO WEEKS FOR THEM TO RESPOND AND THAT WAS TWO WEEKS THAT THEY COULD HAVE BEEN WORKING ON IT PRETTY ACTIVELY AND COULD HAVE HAD SOME INFORMATION BACK.

SO I ABSOLUTELY NOT DOUBTING ANYTHING THAT YOU'VE DONE.

>> COUNCILOR WORRELL WAS SPEAKING.

>> THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT.

SO COUNCILOR LOCKE, FIRST OF ALL LET'S JUST ACKNOWLEDGE THERE'S A LOT OF FRUSTRATION UP HERE. I CAN TELL YOU'RE FRUSTRATED.

I'M FRUSTRATED. COUNCILOR TAYLOR, A LOT OF FRUSTRATION UP HERE. SO LET'S JUST NOT JUDGE EACH OTHER THAT THAT'S UNWARRANTED OR NOT FAIR.

MY GOAL AS I EVEN REITERATED LAST TIME AT THE LAST MEETING WAS THAT THE WHOLE REASON TO DO THIS WAS TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED. I SAW DIVISION IN OUR COMMUNITY.

THERE WERE THE PEOPLE WHO THOUGHT EVERYTHING WAS FINE AND THE PEOPLE WHO THOUGHT IT SHOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED AND STAKEHOLDERS ON EACH SIDE TALKING TO ALL OF US WHO SAID -- YOU KNOW, CAN THIS BE DONE OR SHOULDN'T BE DONE AND MY GOAL WAS TO AND INVESTIGATION IS PROBABLY A LITTLE TOO STRONG OF A WORD BUT THAT'S THE WORD WE HAVE TO INVESTIGATE WHAT HAPPENED, ACCEPT IT AND THEN GET IT OUT THERE AND MOVE ON.

EVERYBODY MOVE ON. AND AS I STATED LAST WEEK THIS HAS GONE SO LONG THAT I'M NOW EVEN MORE DISAPPOINTED THAT YOU ARE CHASING THEM THIS LAST TWO WEEKS.

WHAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED, THAT'S SHAMEFUL THAT THEY ARE IGNORED YOU AND WE THEN -- AND THEY'VE -- THIS IS A REFLECTION OF YOU. THAT THEY ARE DOING TO YOU.

YOU ARE BEING FORCED TO SEND US AN EMAIL AND I DIDN'T -- SOMEONE CALLED ME AND SAID DID YOU SEE THE EMAIL.

I DIDN'T SEEN SEE THE EMAIL. SO WHATEVER TIME THAT CAME IN.

SO NOW I'M BEING FORCED FOR A VOTE THAT IF I STICK WITH THE 20TH AND THAT WAS THE PRESSURE WE PUT ON THIS ORGANIZATION WHO I DON'T KNOW FROM ADAM WHEN I MET WITH THEM, I MET WITH THEM ONCE, I GAVE THEM A THREE RING BINDER OF EVERY PIECE OF PAPER I HAD, PEOPLE THAT EMAILED ME AND PEOPLE THAT HAD THOUGHTS, ANYTHING BECAUSE I WAS REACTING. IT WAS ALL REACTION TO THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WERE CREATED, NOT BY ME BUT MY SOMEBODY ELSE.

I'M NOW BEING FORCED TO CHOOSE BETWEEN A REPORT THAT COMES OUT ON AUGUST 20TH I GUESS IT IS OR 3 WEEKS LATER IT'S GOING TO BE SO MUCH BETTER. I THINK THAT'S STUPID.

IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE A LONG TIME BUT COME ON.

IF WE PAID THEM A HUNDRED AND SOME THOUSAND DOLLARS AND THEY TOOK THIS TWO WEEKS I FEEL LIKE I HAVE TO VOTE TO STICK TO THE 20TH NOW IN ORDER TO GET ANYTHING AND I WASN'T PREPARED TO DO THAT WHEN I SAT DOWN IN THIS CHAIR TONIGHT.

AND THE REASON IS BECAUSE I THOUGHT 3 WEEKS, WE WANT THE ANSWER. I KNOW -- YOU KNOW, THINGS HAVE CHANGED. THINGS ARE NOT THE WAY THEY WERE TWO YEARS AGO. I THINK THERE'S A LOT MORE COLLABORATION. I THINK THERE'S A LOT MORE COMMUNICATION. I ACTUALLY AM ENCOURAGED BY THE WAY THINGS ARE GOING AND I'M DISAPPOINTED TO HEAR THAT YOU'RE DISCOURAGED. I'M ENCOURAGED WBY THE WAY THINS ARE GOING. UNFORTUNATELY AND THIS WHOLE INVESTIGATING THE COUNCIL, I GAVE THEM EVERYTHING I HAD.

SO THEY'VE GOT STUFF TO INVESTIGATE.

IF THEY WANT TO INVESTIGATE THE COUNCIL.

I'M NOT REALLY SURE WHAT THAT'S ALL ABOUT BECAUSE EVERYTHING I DID AS A MEMBER OF THE COUNCIL WAS A REACTION TO THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT PERCOLATED INTO THE MEDIA.

SO UNFORTUNATE LY I'M GOING TO VOTE THAT WE STICK TO THE 20TH BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THE WAY THEY ARE TREATING YOU AND I APOLOGIZE TO YOU AND I DID ASK YOU ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS

[01:35:08]

PRIVATELY, WHERE ARE WE, WHAT'S GOING ON.

I DIDN'T THINK I NEEDED TO SPOUT IT TO THE WORLD.

IT WAS BETWEEN YOU AND I. >> YEAH, COUNCILOR WORRELL THIS ISN'T ABOUT YOU PERSONALLY. I'M NOT FRUSTRATED WITH YOU I'M FRULFTED WITH DENTON I WENT THROUGH EVERY LINE OF THE BILLABLES AND WHEN THEY GET AND GOT THE INFORMATION THOUGH I DID ASK YOU I ASKED COUNCIL PRESIDENT I WAS TOLD IT COULD BE COMPLETED IN APRIL AND FEBRUARY AND THEN SEND A MASSIVE REQUEST THEY COULD HAVE SENT ON APRIL 29TH WHICH WAS TURNED AROUND IN LESSON THAN 30 DAYS BY THE DUE DATE TO GET THE INFORMATION BACK. THIS IS ABOUT THEM.

NOT YOU. YOU KNOW, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO HOUND THEM FROM THE LAST MEETINGS IN THAT LAST ONE IN JANUARY TO GET THEM TO PRODUCE WORK.

UNFORTUNATELY I'M JADED. WHEN I WORK WITH A LOT OF A ATTORNIES, I TRULY BELIEVE THAT ONCE THEY RAN OUT OF BILLABLE HOURS AND WEREN'T DEDICATED STAFF TO CASH FLOW THAT WE WERE GOING TO RECEIVE THAT THIS GOT PUT ON THE BACK BURNER OF THEM.

THAT'S MY PERCEPTION OF HOW IT'S HANDLED.

THIS ISN'T ABOUT YOUR HANDLING OF IT BUT ABOUT THE FIRM MAKING THIS A PRIORITY AND PRODUCING THE WORK IT BOGGLES MY MIND IT'S TAKEN THIS LONG. I CAN GO OVER MULTIPLE OTHER INVESTIGATIONS THAT HAVEN'T TAKEN THIS LONG.

AND TO THEN FINALLY REQUEST ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON APRIL 29TH THAT THEY COULD HAVE REQUESTED MONTHS AGO FOR NOW WHICH THEY'VE HAD FOR OVER 60 DAYS, PDFS ARE SEARCHABLE, CHA CHATGPT IT.

I COULD PULL OUT INFORMATION USING AI.

THERE'S SO MANY WAYS SO I'M STILL STUCK ON THE 20TH.

THEY NEED TO DO THEIR WORK THAT THEY WERE PAID FOR AND DELIVER THE QUALITY PRODUCT THAT THEY STAND BY AS A LARGE PROFESSIONAL LAW FIRM AND PRODUCE THIS REPORT.

THAT'S WHERE I'M AT. THIS ISN'T ABOUT YOU BUT THEM EXECUTING THE WORK WE PAID THEM FOR AND THEY STILL HAVEN'T DONE

IT YET. >> FIRST OFF, I HOPE THEY ARE NOT UPLOADING SENSITIVE DOCUMENTS INTO AI WITHOUT SOME SORT OF GUARDRAILS IN PLACE. THAT COULD BE A SECURITY BREACH.

I SEE SERGEI SAYING THAT RIGHT THERE.

I SHOULD HAVE SAID THIS LAST TIME, PART OF IT THERE'S A LOT OF SAYING IF THIS REPORT IF WE DON'T GIVE THEM ALL THE TIME THEY NEED THEN EVERYONE IS GOING TO QUESTION THE FINAL PRODUCT AND NOT BELIEVE IT. AND I UNDERSTAND THAT BUT THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME PEOPLE THAT NO MATTER HOW MUCH TIME WE TAKE WHATEVER SIDE THERE'S AN ISSUE UNTIL THE REPORT SAYS WHAT THEY WANT IT TO SAY THEY ARE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO ACCEPT THE FINAL REPORT. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT IS WHEN THEY PRESENT THEIR REPORT OR GIVE IT TO US IF THERE'S SOMETHING TROUBLING IN THERE, NOTHING STOPS THE COUNCIL FROM MAKING ANOTHER MOTION AND CON CONTINUING TO INVESTIGATION IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT WAS TROUBLING IN THERE THAT NEEDS TO BE INVESTIGATED FURTHER.

AND I WOULD, OF COURSE, REQUIRE COUNCIL ACTION BUT WE CAN DO THAT IF THERE'S SOMETHING IN THERE THAT REQUIRES FURTHER INVESTIGATION. IF THEY NEED MORE TIME BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T FOUND ANYTHING, THAT TO ME IS NOT A GOOD REASON TO KEEP CONTINUING THIS. AFTER 14 MONTHINGS IF THERE WAS SOMETHING TO BE FOUND IT WOULD HAVE BEEN FOUND BY NOW.

>> AND ADAM BY THE WAY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND OTHER AGENCIES INPUT STUFF --

[LAUGHTER]. >> OKAY.

MY TURN. I DO AGREE WITH JEFF, THE INVESTIGATION WAS A HARSH WORD FROM THE BEGINNING PROBABLY, THIS IS A REVIEW OF PROCESS, HISTORY AND PROCESS HOPEFULLY WITH A PRODUCT THAT PROVIDES GUI GUIDELINES, ANY CORRECTIVE CHANGES THAT NEED TO BE MADE AND GUIDELINES ON HOW TO PROCEED. I WANT TO REMIND EVERYBODY THAT THE ORDINANCE WE'RE DISCUSSING THIS UNDER SIMPLY WAS ONE THAT SAYS IF SOMETHING IS GETTING TAX PAYERS MONEY THERE MUST BE A CITY COUNCILLOR ON THE COMMITTEE.

THAT'S WHAT THE ORDINANCE IS. BUT WE'RE USING IT TO TALK ABOUT THIS. MY FRUSTRATION BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT OUR FRUSTRATIONS BECAUSE IF THEIS WERE ANY OTHER LEGAL ISSUE THIS WOULD NOT BE TALKED UP HERE AND ATTORNIES WOULD BE SCREAMING AT US TO SHUT UP.

SO DENTONS HAS ETHICAL DUTIES, ANYBODY ELSE? ANYBODY ATTORNEY? WHAT THEY DO, DON'T DO.

I'M NOT GOING TO COMMENT ON THEIR STAFFING AND DECISIONS,

[01:40:01]

WHATEVER ELSE. I THINK THAT A MISTAKE WAS MADE BY GETTING INTO A TWO HOUR CONVERSATION LAST WEEK AND LAST MEETING AND I THINK WE'RE GROWING HERE BECAUSE THE MORE WE TALK ABOUT THIS WHICH I THOUGHT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF KIND OF SHIFTING THINGS TO THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD TALK ABOUT IT WOULD BE THE LEADER OF THE COMMITTEE WHO I STILL THINK HAS DONE A GREAT JOB AND I'M GOING TO FRANKLY FOLLOW HIS OPINION ON WHAT WE THINK WE SHOULD DO BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE A STRONG ENOUGH ONE ON THIS ISSUE. I DON'T SEE WHERE -- I SEE THE ARGUMENT, WHY 3 WEEKS IS OFFENSIVE TO SOME.

3 WEEKS IS 3 WEEKS. I CAN SEE THAT ARGUMENT OF OTHER MY CONCERN IS NOT WHAT THE KIND OF REPORT THEY PROVIDE BUT BECAUSE WE'VE GIVEN THEM AN ULTIMATUM IF WE DON'T HIT THE DEADLINE WE'VE JUST THROWN AWAY 125,000 DOLLARS BECAUSE WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A -- THE PENALTY IS TURN OVER WHAT YOU HAVE AND IN A NONREPORT FORM AND THEN THERE'S NOTHING THERE.

SO IF THEY DON'T THINK THEY CAN DO IT BY THE 20TH I WOULD RATHER HAVE A DOCUMENT THAN NO DOCUMENT.

THAT'S MY OPINION. WE DO HAVE A MOTION AND WE DO

HAVE A SECOND. >> I WOULD LIKE TO MAYBE THROW A LITTLE WRENCH IN THE WORKS HERE, MR. PRESIDENT.

SO IS IT AT ALL FEASIBLE FOR THE CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE TO FIND OUT WHY -- YOU KNOW, WHY THIS 3 WEEKS IS SO IMPORTANT AND IS THERE SOMETHING OF CONCERN AND TO VET THAT.

I'M JUST WONDERING IF THERE -- YOU KNOW, I MEAN WHAT IS THIS 3 WEEKS ALL ABOUT? IF IT'S JUST ABOUT WELL THAT'S WHEN OUR IN TURN IS GOING TO BE AVAILABLE, THAT'S NOT MY PROBLEM BUT IF THERE IS SOMETHING THAT THEY ARE STILL TRYING TO DETERMINE COULD YOU ASK THAT QUESTION IN ALL FAIRNESS AND FIND THAT OUT. THAT SEEMS TO BE WHAT IF WE'RE UP HERE ARGUING FOR NOTHING AND THEY JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S PRETTY AND IT'S GOING TO SAY WHAT WE ALL ALREADY KNOW.

SO I'M JUST ASKING HOW MUCH INTERACTION DO YOU HAVE AND YEAH, I'M GOING TO DIALLING THE PHONE TOMORROW.

>> YEAH, SO THE CONVERSATION I HAD TODAY ABOUT IT WAS ABOUT THAT. IT WAS ABOUT WHAT -- DO THEY NEED TIME-WISE TO ENSURE THAT THEY GET THROUGH WHAT THEY HAVE TO PUT IT IN A FORM THAT FU FULFILLS THE REQUIREMENT OF GETTING A REPORT PULLED TOGETHER.

SO I TOOK THEIR LACK OF RESPONSE FOR THE LAST TWO WEEKS AS THEY WERE DILIGENTLY WORKING TO GET THROUGH AND PULL STUFF TOGETHER.

AND THE LAST MINUTE RESPONSE, WHICH I THINK EVERYBODY WHO HAS EVER WORKED ON ANYTHING IN THEIR OWN WHOLE UNDERSTANDS IS A PANIC MODE WE TRIED OUR VERY BEST TO GET IT DONE TO SEE WHERE WE WOULD BE IN AUGUST 3RD BECAUSE THAT'S WAS THE DEADLINE AND THEY SAID WE WOULD LOVE JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME TO MAKE IT WORK.

I'M NOT OPPOSED IN MY ANY WAY FOR ANYBODY AND ALL PEOPLE TO REACH OUT AND HAVE A CONVERSATION.

I AGAIN HAVE TRIED TO STAY OUT OF THE ME NUSHA OF THE DETAILS BECAUSE IT IS AN INVESTIGATION AS COUNCILOR GREEN SAID OF US TOO SO REALLY ME TRYING TO NAVIGATE IT TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY STAYED OUT OF THE QUESTION OF DID YOU FIND ANYTHING. IS THERE ANYTHING THERE ON PURPOSE FOR ME FOR US AS WE'RE TRYING TO GET THROUGH IT TO LET THEM KIND OF SHAPE THAT THE WAY THAT YOU NEEDED -- YEAH, NO ANSWER. AND I WILL JUST TO REITERATE YOUR JUDGMENT POINT, THERE'S NO JUDGMENT.

THIS ISN'T A JUDGMENT THING. IT'S AN OBJECTIVE REVIEW OF WHAT WE'RE DOING AND HOW WE'RE MOVING AND I APPRECIATE YOUR SENTIMENT AND GUIDANCE AS WE TRY TO NAVIGATE THESE THINGS TOGETHER.

BUT I DO NOT AND WILL NOT EVER SEE THIS AS A REFLECTION OF ME.

THIS IS A PROCESS THAT I HAD TO RUN FOR US AND IF ANYTHING IT'S A REFLECTION OF ALL OF US AND OUR INABILITY TO KEEP SOMETHING ON THE RAILS WHERE 9 PEOPLE UNDERSTOOD THE DIRECTION IT WAS MOVING IN THE SAME PROCESS. SO I WILL BE FINE WHEN I GO HOME

[01:45:01]

AT NIGHT AND KNOW THE DECISIONS I MADE WERE FOR THE REASONS THAT I NEEDED TO MAKE THEM. I KNOW YOU ALL WILL DO THE SAME BUT I DO JUST WANT FOR THE RECORD TO STATE THAT I WILL NOT AND DO NOT ACCEPT THAT THIS IS A REFLECTION OF ME IN ANY SINGLE WAY. REGARDLESS OF WHAT OTHER PEOPLE

MAY THINK. >> THANK YOU.

THE DEADLINE STAYS AT AUGUST 20TH.

WHERE ARE WE? ITEM B.

[Items 12.c & 12.d.]

PUBLIC AREAS STILL IN LAND USE. ITEM C, THIRD READING OF ORDINANCE D-2834-26. SINCE THIS WAS ALSO PRESENT IN THE FINANCE, RICH, WOULD YOU LIKE TO TAKE THIS ONE.

>> YES, SIR. THIS IS AN ORDINANCE OF THE REVENUE TO PAY FOR THE DECISION AND INSTALLATION OF THE CITY'S WATER WORKS SYSTEM AND I BELIEVE DIRECTOR YOUNG AND HIS TEAM ARE ALL -- ARE ALSO GOING TO PRESENT IN THIS ONE PRESENTATION ON THE THIRD READING OF ORDINANCE D-2735-26 A BOND ORDINANCE PERMITTING THE ISSUANCE OF SEWAGE WORKS REVENUE BONDS OF THE CITY TO PAY FOR THE -- AND EQUIPPING OF VARIOUS IMPROVEMENTS TO THE CITY SEWAGE WORKS SYSTEM.

THIS COMES BACK -- BOTH THESE COME BACK FROM THE FINANCE COMMITTEE WITHOUT A POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL.

>> SO LANE, YOU'RE GOING TO DISCUSSING IN TANDEM ORDINANCE D-2834-26 WHICH IS ITEM C AND 2835-26 ITEM D SINCE THERE'S A

LOT OF OVERLAP. >> CORRECT.

GOOD EVENING, COUNCIL. THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME BE APART OF THIS TONIGHT. I COME TO YOU WITH WHAT IS THE THIRD READING OF THESE TWO ORDINANCES.

I WILL SAY AND I'M NOT SURE PROCEDURALLY I'M GOING TO THROW THIS OUT THERE AND THEN LET OUR PROCEDURES GURUS TAKE OVER BUT WE DID AMEND THIS FROM WHEN I FIRST READ IT AND I WAS HERE AND

PRESENT IT TO YOU ALL. >> LET'S ADDRESS THIS QUICK.

YOU HAVE PRESENTED THIS AS AMENDED AND IT WAS NOTICED AS AMENDED AND IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING FROM OUR COUNCIL, CITY'S COUNCIL THAT WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS KIND OF NOTISES AND UPDATES. A LITTLE BIT OF A KINK IN THIS FOR UNIFORMITY SAKE AND THAT IS WE DID A PUBLIC HEARING AT THE LAST MEETING. I'VE SINCE BEEN INFORMED THAT PUBLIC HEARING WAS NOT REQUIRED BUT SINCE WE DID ONE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE ANOTHER ONE SINCE THE DOLLAR AMOUNT HAS CHANGED.

PURELY PROCEDURAL. SHOULD NOT CHANGE ANYTHING BUT WE WILL DO ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING BECAUSE THE DOLLAR AMOUNTS CHANGED AND WE HAD ONE AT THE LAST MEETING.

SO WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IS THE AMENDED ORDINANCE THAT WE'VE ALL GOTTEN AND HAS BEEN NOTICED TO THE PUBLIC.

>> CORRECT. >> SINCE IT'S PROCEDURAL IT'S OKAY THAT THE PUBLIC HEARING WASN'T NOTICED.

>> I THINK IT'S OKAY BECAUSE IT'S AN ITEM THAT'S COMING BACK FROM A COMMITTEE. IT'S BEEN PROPERLY NOTICED THEN.

THE PUBLIC HEARING HAS BEEN PROPERLY LY NOTICED THE FIRST SO IF MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC ARE FOLLOWING THIS PARTICULAR ITEM THEY SHOULD BE AWARE THAT THERE MIGHT BE A NUMBER OF ACTION ITEMS REGARDING THIS SPECIFIC ITEM.

>> I THINK PRESIDENT SNYDER WAS SAYING HE WANTED TO DO IT THIS

EVENING. >> YEAH.

>> WE'RE GOING TO -- WE'LL GET THAT OUT OF THE WAY.

IF I HAVE EVERYBODY'S CONSENT TO KIND OF REARRANGE THE AGENDA

[01:50:02]

JUST A TINY BIT. ALL RIGHT.

OPENING UP PUBLIC HEARING FOR ITEM C, THIRD READING OF ORDINANCE D-2834-26. AT 7:54.

SEEING NO ONE RUSHING TO THE PODIUM WE'LL CLOSE THAT AT 7:55 AND WE'LL GO AHEAD AND DO PUBLIC HEARING FOR ITEM D.

ORDINANCE D-2835-26 AT 7:55 AND SEEING NO ONE RUSHING TO THE PODIUM. AGAIN WE'LL CLOSE THAT AT 7:55 AND SOME CHANGE. THANK YOU.

I KNOW THAT SOUNDS LITTLE BUT SINCE WE DID ONE FOR A DIFFERENT AMOUNT AND I DID SPEAK WITH BOND COUNCIL ABOUT THAT JUST TO STAY

CONSISTENT. >> THANK YOU FOR THAT AND I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT CONFUSION WHEN I THOUGHT WE COULD DO THAT, I THOUGHT WE COULD DO IT ALL IN ONE FELL SWOOP.

>> YOU SEE ALL THE MISTAKES I MAKE?

YOU'RE FINE. >> I DID COME TO YOU GUYS, YOU ALL A MONTH AGO WITH THIS REQUEST FOR SOME IMPROVEMENTS FOR OUR SYSTEM TO HELP OUR OVERALL SYSTEM BOTH ON THE WATER AND WASTE WATER SIDE AND JUST START WITH A REMINDER THAT THIS -- THESE ARE IMPROVEMENT THAT IS ARE ABLE TO BE ACCOMPLISHED WITHIN OUR BUDGET WITHIN OUR CURRENT REVENUE STRUCTURE SO I'M NOT COMING BEFORE YOU WITH A NEED TO RAISE RATES. WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS AND WHILE SOME THINGS COULD BE FUNDED WITH CASH, THESE ARE ASSETS THAT HAVE 50 YEAR LIFE CYCLE AND SO IT MAKES SENSE TO ISSUE A BOND TO COVER SOME OF THAT AND ALLOW THAT TO BE PAID FOR BY PEOPLE IN THE FUTURE AS WELL WHO WILL BENEFIT FROM THOSE ASSETS.

SO LETTING YOU ALL KNOW 245 THIS IS THAT THIS IS COMING TO YOU WITH SOME PROJECTS WE NEED TO DO AND FUND IT THROUGH A BOND ORDINANCE I NEED YOU ALL TO APPROVE.

THAT'S KIND OF HIGH LEVEL AND START WITH THE WATER SIDE.

SO THE REASON FOR THE -- ONE OF THE REASONS FOR THE AMENDMENT AND BOND COUNCIL IS HERE WITH ME PART OF IT IS SOME LANGUAGE THAT NEEDED TO BE CLEANED UP AND TYPOS AND THINGS THAT NEED TO BE CLEANED UP THAT WAS PART OF THE AMENDMENT AND THE OTHER PIECE WAS THE FACT I INCREASED THE WATER AMOUNT TO COVER THIS PROJECT HERE AND ONE OTHER THAT I WILL MENTION HERE IN A MOMENT.

SO THIS IS -- AND YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THIS SLIDE AGAIN, SO ON YOUR FAR LEFT IS RANGE LINE IS PROBABLY MAYBE ON THE EDGE OF EVEN OF THIS AS I LOOK AT IT BECAUSE I THINK IT'S EVEN FURTHER TO THE LEFT STARTING AT RANGE LINE AT MEDICAL DRIVE AND GOING DOWN MEDICAL DRIVE ALL THE WAY TO TRIPLE A WAY, DOWN TRIPLE A WAY AROUND KEYSTONE AVENUE AND BA BACK UP. THAT'S THE VERY DEEP SUER I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT THAT FOR A MOMENT.

THAT PROJECT HAD BEEN ON THE BOOKS AND PREDECESSOR HAD LOOKED AT THIS AS CAPACITY AND WHAT I FAILED TO UNDERSTAND AND WHAT ABOUT THE OLD WATER MAINS THERE AS WELL WHEN WE HAVE THAT ROAD DUG UP. AND SO I SAID WE NEED TO INCLUDE THAT. SO THAT WAS NOT INCLUDED IN THE FIRST PROPOSAL. IT IS BEING INCLUDED NOW AND WE'VE GOT A FIRM WORKING DILIGENTLY TO GET A DESIGN NUMBER FOR THAT. I DON'T EVEN HAVE THAT.

I CAN TELL YOU THAT IN LOOKING AT THIS WE'VE PUT A 2 MILLION DOLLAR I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO NEED.

I'LL KNOW MORE WHEN WE GET THE DESIGN WORK DONE ON THAT BUT THAT'S THIS PROJECT AND IT'S REPLACING OLD CAST IRON MATERIAL THAT'S NO LONGER USED ANYMORE. IT GETTING BRITTLE AS IT AGES.

AND SO WE WILL REPLACE A 10 INCH CAST IRON MAIN WITH A 10 INCH DUCT IRON MAIN. WE'VE GOTTEN IT'S USEFUL LIFE OUT OF IT AND IT'S PRUDENT TO DO IT NOW WHILE WE HAVE THE ROAD DUG UP. THAT'S THAT PROJECT.

THIS IS ALSO IN THIS MERCHANT SQUARE AREA THE SECOND PART ALONG CARMEL DRIVE AND THE LIGHT I'M GOING TO CALL IT AT ALL OR TALK AQUA. IF YOU GO DUE NORTH THERE WILL BE THE NEW KINSER ROAD IT'S KIND OF ORANGIH REDDISH THERE, MAYBE YELLOW IN THERE. GOING STRAIGHT UP FROM CARMEL DRIVE UP TO WHERE KENSLER ENDS CURRENTLY.

THAT'S A ROAD THAT'S BEING PUT IN AND WE WILL REPLACE THE WATER MAIN IN THERE AS WELL AS REPLACE AN UPSIZE THE WATER MAIN ALONG CARMEL DRIVE. AGAIN OLDER WATER MAIN AND WE'RE IN HERE WHILE THIS WORK IS BEING DONE SO THIS WAS PART OF THE PROCESS BUT THE PREVIOUS ONE WAS NOT.

[01:55:03]

OFTEN WE HAVE WATER MAIN PROJECTS THAT ARE DICTATED BY ROAD PROJECTS. MOST OF OUR ASSETS ARE IN RIGHT OF WAY, PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY AS OPPOSED TO OWN PRIVATE EASEMENTS. WE HAVE SOME BUT NOT VERY MANY.

SO WHENEVER WE'RE IN A PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY WE'RE SUBJECT TO THE RULES OF THE PUBLIC RIGHTAWAY THE COUNTY IS COMING IN AND PUTTING IN A ROUND ABOUT. THEY ARE GOING TO DO THE PROJECT OF RELOCATING OUR MAIN TO GET IT OUT OF THE WAY AND WE'LL BE DONE IN CONTRACT WITH THEIR PROJECT AND I THINK THE BIDS I WAS JUST TOLD EARLIER TODAY THE BIDS HAVE BEEN LET OR AT LEAST BEEN ADVERTISED. SO WE'VE PUT A MILLION AND A HALF PLACEHOLDER ON THAT. BUT WE'LL SEE WHEN THEY COME BACK AND I'LL KNOW WHAT THAT IS. SO THAT'S THAT PROJECT THERE.

MIN MICHIGAN ROAD, THAT'S A PROJECT WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT CORRIDOR AND FAR WEST SIDE OF THE SERVICE AREA AND IT'S THAT KIND OF ANGULAR ON THE VERY LEFT. SO RIGHT NOW THAT WHOLE AREA IS FED ONLY FROM ONE ACCESS POINT OR ONE KIND OF WHERE WE GET IT ON THE SOUTH AT 96 IT COMES UP AND MOVES UP AND THIS WILL GIVE US SOMETHING AROUND 116TH IT'S NOT QUITE THERE IT'S JUST A LITTLE SOUTH TO HAVE BUT IT'S GOING ACROSS AND THAT WILL GIVE US A LOOP. IT WILL GIVE US ANOTHER FEED TO THAT CORRCORRIDOR. IT SHOULD IMPROVE OUR WATER PRESSURES ON THE WEST SIDE AS WELL SO THAT'S A PROJECT WE'RE DOING AND THAT'S ABOUT A MILLION 2 PLACE HOLDER ON THAT.

AND IT'S ACTUALLY BEEN DESIGNED IT'S A MILLION 1-7 WE HAVE A PRETTY GOOD NUMBER ON THAT PROJECT.

THIS IS THE FINAL ONE THAT I THINK OBVIOUSLY WE'VE BEEN A PART OF THE PUBLIC DISCUSSION HERE RECENTLY AROUND STORM WATER AND WHAT'S GOING ON IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD AND SO AS THE CITY IS LOOKING TO MAKE SOME IMPROVEMENTS FOR THE STORM WATER AS WELL AS THE ROADS IN THERE IT MADE SENSE THAT WE GET IN THERE AS WELL AS THOSE MAINS ARE CAST IRON, 1971, THEY ARE AT THEIR USEFUL LIFE. SO WE HAD A REAL HIGH PLACE HOLDER AROUND A MILLION AND A HALF ON THAT.

NO DESIGN ON IT YET, WE GOT A FIRM WORKING ON THAT BUT WITH THIS COMING WE THOUGHT WE WOULD GET IN THERE AND GET THIS WORK AS WELL. THOSE ARE THE WATER PROJECTS.

THEN ON THE WASTEWATER SO HERE'S A LITTLE BIT BETTER PICTURE OF THAT, THE YELLOW. THIS IS THE CURRENT 12 INCH SANITARY SEWER THAT IS A CLAY PIPE SEWER.

THIS WAS INSTALLED IN 1969. CARMEL WAS VERY DIFFERENT IN 1 1969.

CERTAINLY MID TOWN WAS VERY DIFFERENT IN 1969.

AND SO THIS WAS LARGELY RESIDENTIAL AND BUILT TO HANDLE AND CONVEY RESIDENTIAL AS MID TOWN HAS GROWN, BECOME MORE DENSE, WE HAVE SEEN WHERE THIS 12 INCH PIPE IS NOT -- DOESN'T HAVE THE CAPACITY THAT WE NEED IT TO HAVE.

WE'VE HAD -- WE'RE FORTUNATE THAT IT'S 25 FEET DEEP BECAUSE WE HAVE SURGED THE PIPE THAT'S GONE UP INTO THE MAN HOLD, IT'S DEEP ENOUGH AND LARGE ENOUGH TO TOLD THAT BUT OVER TIME THAT CAN ONLY GET WORSE. IN LOOKING TO TRYING TO PROJECT FUTURE GROWTH WE'RE GOING TO UPSIZE THAT FROM 12 INCH MAIN TO 18 INCH MAIN AND WE BELIEVE THAT WILL GIVE US PLENTY OF FUTURE CAPACITY IN THAT AREA TO HANDLE THAT.

THEN GOING A LITTLE BIT NORTH IN THIS AREA I SHOWED YOU IT'S PRETTY SIMILAR TO THE WATER WORK WE'RE DOING WE'RE REPLACING AND ADDING A SEWER LINE, UPSIZING IT FROM A 12 INCH ALONG CARMEL, MAKING THAT 15 AND 18 AS IT GETS FURTHER EAST AND THEN 15 GOING UP STRAIGHT INTO KENS LER WHERE THE WATER IS GOING INTO.

THOSE ARE THE PROJECTS, LARGELY THOSE ARE CAPACITY PROJECTS THAT ENHANCE OUR SYSTEM THROUGHOUT; RIGHT? BECAUSE THE WAY IT ALL WORKS, IT FLOWS. THIS GRAMMARSY PROJECT DEFINITELY NEEDED SOME ADDITIONAL CAPACITY.

AND SO THIS WILL HELP THAT AS WELL BUT I CAN TELL YOU THEY'VE MADE A PRETTY NICE CONTRIBUTION TO THIS THAT COVERS WHAT MAY BE THE ADDITIONAL THAT WE WOULD DO. SO I FEEL VERY GOOD THAT THIS IS NOT -- WE'RE NOT DOING THIS IN A DEVELOPER'S BENEFITTING AT THE EXPENSE OF EVERYBODY ELSE. THEY'VE THUL BEEN A CONTRIBUTOR AND THERE'S MORE THAT THEY PLAN TO CONTRIBUTE.

THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS ASKED OF ME EARLIER AND I WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR IN THIS PRESENTATION.

I THINK THAT'S -- YEAH, THAT'S -- I'M GOING TO PAUSE HERE. AND ALLOW YOU ALL TO ASK ME ANY OF THE TECHNICAL OR THE SORT OF PROBLEM THAT WE'RE GOING TO SOLVE AND I'M GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO SCOTT MILLER WHO WILL

[02:00:02]

WALK THROUGH THE FINANCIAL AND KIND OF SHOW YOU WHERE WE STAND WITH OUR FINANCES BASED ON THIS ISSUANCE.

>> CAN I JUST ASK WHAT THAT CONTRIBUTION IS AND HOW DOES THAT WORK? IS IT SOMETHING STRAIGHT TO THE CITY AND THEN GOES FROM THERE OR CAN YOU JUST --

>> YEAH, IT'S STRAIGHT TO THE UTILITY.

WE LOOK AT WHAT FUTURE USE IS GOING TO BE AND THERE'S AN EDU THAT WE ASCRIBE, ONE HOUSE IS AN DEMAND IS GOING TO COME ON THAT AND THEN WE HAVE A RATE STRUCTURE BASED ON THOSE EDUS AND BASED ON THE USE THAT'S GOING TO COME IN AND HOW IT'S GOING TO BE REDEVELOPED AND WE TAKE THAT TIME AS A MULTIPLER. THAT'S WHAT'S OUT THERE.

I BELIEVE THEY HAVE PAID 1.2 MILLION DOLLARS THUS FAR WITH POTENTIAL FOR ANOTHER 2.7 MILLION DOLLARS.

>> OKAY. THANK YOU.

>> WHEN YOU ARE GOING THROUGH THIS, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE -- I GUESS I'M GOING TO ASK YOU THIS, HOW MANY MILES? IT'S NOT THAT IMPORTANT. WELL IT'S MORE THAN ONE.

>> IT'S MORE THAN ONE. >> THIS IS KIND OF WHERE I'M VERY GOOD AT PIPES IN GROUND BUT THE SUPPLY ON FORCE MAIN SIDES, I'M GOING TO MAKE THE ASSUMPTION OR MADE THE SUNTLE THAT A 12 INCH PIPE IS PROBABLY A 11 INCH PIPE BECAUSE OF BUILDUP AND WE WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE CROSS-SECTION OF SOME OF THE PIPES THAT YOU TAKE OUT I'M SURE -- I MEAN I'VE SEEN 12 INCH PIPES THAT HAVE AN HALF INCH OPENING.

THAT'S ABOUT 70 GALLONS OF ADDITIONAL VOLUME OVER A MILE FROM 11 TO 18 WHICH I THINK HAS PROS AND CONS IF I'M REACHING BACK IN MY MEMORY. ONE, IT'S MORE VOLUME, WHICH IS GREAT. AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN VOLUME AND PRESSURE, THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY IMPACT PRESSURE. BUT AT WHAT POINT DO WE NEED MORE CAPACITY ON THE BACK END, STORAGE CAPACITY TO MAINTAIN THE GROWTH WHETHER IT'S AN UNDER GROUND WATER STORAGE WITH PUMPS OR WATER TOWER FOR ADDITIONAL WATER TOWER FOR SUPPLY LINE AND I KNOW THAT IN 1967 THE FLOWS WERE A LOT DIFFERENT THAN THEY ARE NOW. WHAT'S THE THOUGHT PROCESS ON ARE WE DOING SO MUCH AT ONCE THAT MAY CREATE ANOTHER LARGE

PROJECT IN THE FUTURE. >> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

AND IT WILL. IT WILL; RIGHT? BECAUSE THE FLOW IS GOING TO COME FROM THE FAR WEST, HIGHEST POINT AND WORK IT'S WAY ALL THE WAY DOWN TO 96 AND HAZELDELL.

THEY FEED RIGHT NOW INTO 15 INCH MAINS ONCE THEY KIND OF GET OUT OF THE MERCHANT SQUARE AND HEAD SOUTH.

SO AT SOME POINT WE'RE GOING FROM A 12 TO 18 AND PROBABLY COULD HAVE GONE FROM 12 TO 15 AND BEEN FINE.

BUT IF THERE'S ANY FUTURE GROWTH AND WE'RE DOWN IN THERE THESE ARE 50, 60 YEAR ASSETS LET'S GO AHEAD AND MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT BIGGER SO WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT BUT AS THE FLOW DOES COME AND AS MORE DEMAND AND MORE USERS JUMP ON THAT UPSTREAM, YES, WE WILL HAVE TO LOOK AT AND WE HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT THOSE PROJECTS. THEY ARE NOT READY.

WE'RE NOT READY TO DO THAT. THERE WILL BE A LIFT STATION INVOLVED WITH THAT AND GRAVITY MAIN.

THIS IS ON THE SEWER. I THINK ON THE WATER SIDE WE'RE IN PRETTY GOOD SHAPE WITH OUR WATER WITH THIS PROJECT COMING IN ONLINE HERE SOON ON THE FAR WEST SIDE WITH THAT STORAGE TANK AND WE MAY LOOK AT SOME MAKING MAINS A LITTLE BIT LARGER WHERE WE GOT SOME PINCH POINTS AND PLACES WHERE WE BOUGHT THE INDIANAPOLIS SYSTEM BUT THEY HAD SMALLER MAINS.

THERE'S PLACES IN THE SYSTEM THAT CREATE THOSE PROBLEM AND YOU GET HEAD LOSS AND SOME DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE THAT BUT I THINK ON THE WATER SIDE WE'RE GOOD FOR WATER PRODUCTION AND STORAGE. SO THIS IS REALLY I THINK A FUTURE PROJECT AS THAT FLOW INCREASES KIND OF JUST EAST OF KEYSTONE HEADING SOUTH DOWN 116 AND WE'RE LOOKING AT A PROJECT NOW AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE DOING I FORGOT TO MENTION WE'RE PAYING OFF A BAND. THERE WAS A COUPLE OF PROJECTS

[02:05:02]

IN 2023 UNDER THAT BAN. ONE WAS TO INCREASE CAPACITY AND REDUNDANCY AT 106 STREET LIFT STATION WHICH IS KIND OF THE FINAL RECEIVING STRUCTURE FOR A GOOD AMOUNT OF OUR FLOW BECAUSE WE SENT IT DOWN TO THE PLANT. IT'S RIGHT THERE THE HAZEL DELL LANDING PARK. WE STUBBED OUT 42 INCH MAIN TO DO A FORCED MAIN TO SOMEWHERE ALL THE WAY TO 116 AND SOMEWHERE SOUTH OF THAT THAT WILL ULTIMATELY TAKE THAT FLOW YOU'RE ASKING THAT'S A FUTURE PROJECT DOWN THE ROAD WE DON'T THINK THAT DOING THIS NOW WILL CREATE THAT NEED BUT IT WILL BE THE

NEXT THING THAT WE LOOK AT. >> MY QUESTION WAS -- ON THE WASTE WATER SIDE I KNOW YOU'RE DOING A LOT OF THINGS WITH LINING AND I DO WANT TO PUT SOME IMMEDIATE RESPONSES WILL -- WHY WOULDN'T YOU JUST REPLACE THE TYPE AND A LOT OF YOUR SANITARY PIPES HAVE ISSUES FROM ROOTS AND COLLAPSE THEIR CLAY AND I MEAN BUT THE LINING TO PUT PEOPLE AT EASE IS GOING TO BE STRONGER THAN ANY PIPE THAT YOU PUT IN THE GROUND.

IT'S A RESIN BASE AND SO THE WHOLE PIPE AROUND IT CAN COLLAPSE ONCE IT'S SET AND IT WILL STILL SERVICE AND ONCE THE ROOTS GO BACK THROUGH, NO, IT WON'T AND THE OTHER COOL THING ABOUT LINING THAT I FIND INTERESTING YOU GET RID OF ALL THE JOINTS AND IT'S ONE CONTINUOUS THING BUT IT KILS THE SCENT TRAIL FOR TREE ROOTS NOW THEY AREN'T CRAVING THEY GO TOWARDS WHERE THEY FEEL NUTRIENTS ARE AND NOW THEY ARE NOT GOING TOWARDS THAT SO NOW THE TREE ROOTS CAN'T PENETRATE THE RESIN BASED LINER BUT IT WON'T SEEK THAT.

>> WE DO QUITE A BIT OF IT AND THAT'S THE FIRST GO TO AND UNTIL YOU REACH A BOTTLENECK CAPACITY BUT THEN THAT'S A DIFFERENT

PROJECT BUT YEAH. >> THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT.

I HAD A BIO BREAK BUT I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE LIFE CYCLE OF THOSE LINERS I ASKED YOU DURING THE FINANCE MEETING AND I THINK IT'S WORTH SINCE MATT WAS TALK ABOUT IT JUST TALKING PEOPLE WHAT THE GENERAL LIFE CYCLE IS OF THOSE.

>> I WOULD BE REMISS IF I WENT T THE TECH SPECS AND STUDIED IT. WE BELIEVE THERE'S AT LEAST 50 YEARS OF LIFE. I THINK IT EXTENDS THE LIFE OF THE ASSET AT LEAST 50 YEARS WHICH IS PRETTY DECENT FOR THE PRICE THAT IT COST TO DO IT. I'LL POP BACK UP WHEN HE'S FINISHED AND TAKE ANY FINAL QUESTIONS.

>> THANK YOU, LANE. SCOTT MILLER.

I'M JUST GOING TO HIT SOME HIGH POINTS WITH YOU ON FINANCES AND THE GREAT NEWS IS THEY ALREADY STOLE THE THUNDER WITHOUT A RATE INCREASE ON WATER AND WASTE WATER.

THAT'S THE REALLY GOOD NEWS ABI ABOUT THIS. WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT MOST OF THAT AND THIS IS ON THE WATER SIDE THE CURRENT SCHEDULE OF PROJECT COSTS SOME FUNDING SO WE GOT ABOUT 9.6, 9.8 MILLION DOLLARS FOR THE ACTUAL CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS MYSELF AND PLUS SOME ADDITIONAL COSTS FOR OBTAINING THE FINANCING AND THE WAY THAT PRICING THAT WE SEE RIGHT NOW IN THE MARKET LOOKS IS THAT WE WOULD LIKELY ISSUE THESE BONDS WITH NET ORIGINAL ISSUE PREMIUM. WE'RE ONLY GOING TO ISSUE 9 AND A HALF MILLION OF BONDS.

THOSE ARE NUMBERS WITH ROBERT W BARRY, THE CITY'S UNDER WRITER TONIGHT AND WE UPDATED NUMBERS LATE LAST WEEK AND THAT'S AS CURRENT AS WE HAVE RIGHT NOW. WE'LL TALK MORE ABOUT THAT IN JUST A SECOND AS FAR AS THE MARKET IS.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT FROM A SIZING PERSPECTIVE ON THE WATER SIDE. IN TERMS OF CURRENT FINANCIAL INFORMATION THIS IS A PICTURE OF YOUR OUTSTANDING ANNUAL DEBT SERVICE FOR THE BONDS THAT ARE CURRENTLY ISSUED AND OUTSTANDING AND THEN ALONG THE VERY TOP EDGE OF THAT GRAPH JUST OVER THE 10 MILLION DOLLAR LINE THAT DARKER GREEN COLOR IS THE PRINCIPLE AND INTEREST THAT WOULD GET ADDED AS PART OF THIS FINANCING SO YOU CAN SEE 10 MILLION DOLLARS ON THE DEBT THAT'S ALREADY OUTSTANDING FOR THE WATER UTILITY IS RELATIVELY MINOR.

MAINTAINS THE LEVEL STRUCTURE THAT WE'VE HAD IN PLACE SINCE WE DID THE MAJOR RE STRSTRUCTURE B IN 2024, 2025.

[02:10:03]

FROM A COVERAGE PERSPECTIVE, AND THIS IS WHY WE'RE ABLE TO DO THIS PROJECT NOW WITHOUT A LARGE RATE INCREASE WE HAD THE INCREASE THAT WAS APPROVED BY COUNCIL BACK AT THE END OF 2023 WENT INTO EFFECT EARLY IN 2024 AND YOU CAN SEE THE JUMP IN RESULTS THERE THAT UP ON THE WATER SIDE ESPECIALLY SIGNIFICANTLY IMPROVED THE FINANCIAL SITUATION OF THE WATER UTILITY AND GETS US TO A POINT WHERE WE'RE ABLE TO ISSUE THESE BONDS WITHOUT ANY SORT OF ADDITIONAL CHANGE TO THE RATE ORDINANCE ON THE WATER SIDE. A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT PICTURE OR DIFFERENT FORM OF THAT SAME PICTURE, THE BARS ARE THE OUTSTANDING DEBT SERVICE PAYMENTS AND THE RED LINE IS YOUR NET REVENUES SO REVENUES COMING IN AND OPERATING REVENUES COMING IN, LESS OPERATING EXPENSES AND YOU CAN SEE THAT STILL THAT LINE IS STILL ON AN UPWARD TREND AND WE'RE STILL GOING TO BE EASILY TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THE DEBT PAYMENTS THAT ARE THERE AND WATER UTILITY RIGHT NOW ON IT'S I DON'T OUTSTANDING HAS ONE THAT IS RA RATED AT TRIPLE B PLUS AND WE'RE HOPING GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS WILL BE ABLE TO RAISE THAT RATING TO ONE OR TWO NOTCHES TO MAYBE AN A MINUS OR AN A. OVER TIME I THINK WE'LL SEE THAT CONTINUE TO IMPROVE BUT I THINK FOR THIS FINANCING IT'S A GOOD TARGET FOR US TO HAVE AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL BE ABLE TO DO THAT FROM A TIMING PERSPECTIVE THE WAY -- WELL ACTUALLY I'LL HOLD THAT BECAUSE I'LL MOVE ON HERE TO WASTEWATER AND TALK ABOUT TIMING IN TOTAL. ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT WATER FINANCES BEFORE I MOVE ON TO WSTEWATER? SAME FORMAT, LAYOUT ON WASTEWATER, MUCH BIGGER PROJECT HERE AGAIN IS THE FORCES AND USES AND 15 MILLION FOR THE CONSTRUCTION PROJECT THEMSELVES. ISSUANCE COST FOR OBTAINING THE FINANCING BUT AS MENTIONED IN ADDITION WE GOT THAT BY ANTICIPATION NOTE FROM 2023 THAT IS OUTSTANDING AND FINAL MATURITY ON THAT IS 2027 BUT SINCE WE NEED TO ENTER THE MARKET ANYWAY MIGHT AS WELL DO IT ALL AT ONCE AND GET IT TAKEN CARE OF AND WE'LL BE TAKING THAT BAN OUT AND ROLLING IT INTO THE LONG TERM FINANCING JUST A LITTLE BIT OVER 25 MILLION DOLLARS OF NEW BONDS FOR THE WASTE WATER SIDE.

THIS IS THE OUTSTANDING AND PROPOSED DEBT ON THE WASTEWATER SO THAT TAN OR LIGHT BROWN IS THE NEW PRINCIPLE AND INTEREST PAYMENTS FROM THIS NEW BOND. THIS IS SHOWING YOU KIND OF WORST CASE SCENARIO GETTING UP TO 4 MILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR IN PRINCIPLE INTEREST AS WE WORK WITH LANDON AND HIS TEAM AND GAUGE THE MARKET WHAT WE'LL PROBABLY END UP DOING IS TAKING SOME OF THE PRINCIPLE IN THOSE EARLY HOWEVER MANY YEARS IT IS, 10 OR 12 YEARS AND DELAYING THE REPAYMENT OF THAT ADD INTO THOSE LATER YEARS SO THAT WE CAN BRING THAT TOTAL DOWN BELOW 4 MILLION A LITTLE BIT JUST KIND OF SMOOTH THAT OUT A LITTLE BIT.

WHAT THAT DOES WILL HELP US ON THOSE BOTTOM TWO NUMBERS THERE ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE COLUMN. RIGHT NOW WASTE WATER IS IN GREAT SHAPE. WASN'T AS BAD OFF BEFORE THE 2023 RATE CHANGE AS WATER BUT SINCE THAT CHANGE KIND OF GETTING READY BECAUSE WE KNEW THESE PROJECTS WERE COMING IT HAS BEEN IN GOOD SHAPE AND THEN EVEN WITH THIS DEBT EVEN IF WE LEAVE IT AT THE RATE THAT IT IS NOW WE'RE STILL 150% COVERAGE.

WE'LL BE ABLE TO BRING IT UP EVEN MORE AND RIGHT NOW WASTE WATER DOESN'T HAVE ANY O OUTSTANDING RATED DEBT BUT WE ANTICIPATE PROBABLY IN THE SAME BALL M-- BALLPARK ON THE WASTE WATER SIDE. AS FAR AS TIMING GOES BACK TO THAT TOPIC IF COUNCIL MOVING FORWARD WITH ADOPTION OF BOTH ORDINANCES TONIGHT WHAT WE'LL DO NEXT IS START TO INITIATE THE RATING PROCESS SO WE'LL SHIP THEM A BUNCH OF INFORMATION IN THE PRELIMINARY OFFERING DOCUMENT SO THE ECAN GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS THAT WILL TAKE 30, 40 DAYS OR SO AS WE WORK THROUGH THIS. DURING THAT TIME WE'LL BE WORKING WITH LANDON AND HIS TEAM IN TERMS OF MARKETING THE BONDS AND IN THE INTEREST OF TIME, WE'RE LOOKING AT A VARIETY OF OPTIONS AND TRYING TO KEEP AS MANY OPTIONS OPEN FOR AS LONG AS POSSIBLE AS WE LOOK AT MARKETING THIS EITHER PRIVATE PLACEMENT OR NEGOTIATED SALE IN THE PUBLIC MARKET IS WHERE WE'RE HEADED AND WE'RE SEEING CHANGES IN THE MARKET RIGHT NOW WHERE IT MAY MAKE MORE SENSE TO GO PRIVATE PLACEMENT VERSES A PUBLIC SALE BUT WE'RE MONITORING THAT AND SEEING WHERE IT ENDS UP TIMING

[02:15:05]

WISE WHERE WE THINK IT WILL BE ON OR AROUND SEPTEMBER 15TH AND CLOSING ON BOTH BOND ISSUES EARLY IN OCTOBER.

AGAIN SAME SORT OF PICTURE AS ON THE WATER SIDE BUT AGAIN NET REVENUE IS INCREASING AND UTILITIES ARE LOOKING REALLY GOOD FINANCIALLY RIGHT NOW AND WITH PLANNING AND HAVING PLANNED FOR THESE IMPROVEMENTS BECAUSE AS SAID THESE HAVE BEEN ON THE DOCKET AND WE KNEW THEY WERE COMING.

JUST HAPPY TO BE HERE AND NOT HAVE TO TELL YOU YOU NEED A RATE INCREASE TONIGHT. WITH THAT WE'LL TAKE ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE AND IF NOTHING ELSE WE'LL TURN IT BACK

TO WAYNE. >> I JUST HAD ONE QUESTION.

YOU MENTIONED THAT WE'RE AT ABOUT 149% COVERAGE WHEN YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE TRYING TO LOOK TO REDUCE THAT WHAT IS YOUR IDEAL? WHAT ARE YOU HOPING THAT YOU CAN

GET THIS TOO. >> WE HAD A SIMILAR QUESTION IN FINANCE COMMITTEE. LET ME THROW OUT A COUPLE OF NUMBERS. WE HAVE TO HAVE A MINIMUM OF 125% DEBT SERVICE COVERAGE TO ISSUE NEW DEBT AND HAVE IT HAVE THE SAME STATUS OF LEAN AGAINST THE NET REVENUES THAT WILL BE USED TO REPAY THE DEBT SO 125 IS THE MINIMUM TO ISSUE NEW DEBT.

IDEALLY I WOULD WELL LET ME SAY IT THIS WAY I START TO GET NERVOUS IF I SEE THAT NUMBERS SART TO GET INTO THE 130, 135% AREA. AND NOT NERVOUS IN THE SENSE THAT WE'RE GOING TO MISS PAYMENTS BUT HEY IF WE GOT MORE THINGS COMING THAT WE NEED TO DO WE NEED TO START THINKING ABOUT CHANGING THE RATES. IF WE'RE ABLE TO SMOOTH OUT SOME OF THE THAT DEBT SERVICE WE'RE GOING TO BE BACK CLOSER TO 180 MAYBE EVEN PROBABLY NOT 200 PERCENT BUT CLOSER TO THE 180% COVERAGE WHICH IS GOING TO BE PRETTY STRONG FROM A RATING PERSPECTIVE. SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I THINK IT'S LIKELY GOING TO PLAY OUT. THERE'S SOME MATH OBVIOUSLY THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN TO GET TO THOSE NUMBERS BUT THAT'S MY GOAL IS TO GET US BACK OVER A DECENT AMOUNT OVER THAT 150 THRESHOLD ON THE WASTEWATER SIDE JUST BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO GET A BETTER RATING DOING THAT. AND I THINK BECAUSE OF THE STRUCTURE OF THE DEBT WE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT WIT WITHOUT -- WITHOUT A SIGNIFICANT FINANCIAL IMPACT.

IF WE DELAY PRINCIPLE IN TOTAL WE'RE GOING TO PAY MORE INTEREST BUT FROM A RATE PERSPECTIVE WE KNOW THERE MAY AT SOME POINT BE ADDITIONAL PROJECTS THAT'S GOING TO LEAVE US MORE ROOM TO DO MORE WORK DOWN THE ROAD WITHOUT IMPACTING RATES.

>> THAT WAS MY NEXT QUESTION. SO THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT.

I APPRECIATE IT. >> WE'LL TRY TO CREATE THE ABILITY TO DO MORE WORK DOWN THE ROAD WITHOUT ANOTHER MAJOR RATE INCREASE. NOT TO SAY THAT IT MIGHT NOT HAPPEN. DON'T MAKE SURE YOU HEARD THAT

RIGHT. >> I'M QUOTING YOU.

IT'S NOT HAPPENING. >> BUT WE'RE TRYING TO CONTROL

THAT AS MUCH AS WE CAN. >> CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE SLIDE THAT SHOWS NET REVENUE OVER DEBT.

MY QUESTION REALLY IS THIS -- WASTEWATER OR HOWEVER YOU WANT TO BREAK IT DOWN BUT THERE'S MAJOR SWINGS WHERE YOUR NET REVENUE IS IN YOUR NET. AND MY I GUES MY QUESTION IS THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME YEARS THAT ARE GOING TO BE BETTER THAN OTHERS AND WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THE EXCESS MONEY.

DO YOU HAVE A UTILITY RAINY DAY FUND FOR INSTANCE.

DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO PUT MONEY BACK IN AND DO YOU DO MORE INTERNAL PROJECTS. JUST GENERALLY IT LOOKS LIKE THERE WILL BE A FEW YEARS WHERE I HAVE A WIN FALL AND REALLY NOT A NEGATIVE YEAR BECAUSE YOU'RE PLANNING FOR IT.

>> GREAT QUESTION. THAT WAS WHAT I WAS GOING TO POP POP UP AND WRAP UP HIS BIT WITH THERE'S ALWAYS A BALANCE OF WHAT DO WE MAINTAIN IN CASH BALANCES TO USE FOR PROJECTS KNOWING THAT CASH BALANCES ALSO ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO THE RATING AGENCIES. AND BECAUSE OF THE COMMUNITY THAT WE ARE AND JUST SORT OF OUR DEMOGRAPHIC WE WILL NEVER QUALIFY FOR THE SUBSIDIZED MONEY THAT COMES OUT OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO THE INDIANA FINANCE AUTHORITY BECAUSE OUR MHI IS TOO HIGH. WE REALLY NEED TO ENSURE OUR RATINGS ARE STRONG. AND SO PART OF WHAT I LOOK AT AND IN THIS LAST BUDGET I DID AND I'LL DO IT IN LAST YEAR'S BUDGET IS WHAT AMOUNT OF CASH DO WE PUT AWAY AND WHAT DO CASH BALANCES LOOK LIKE AND WHAT ARE THEY PROJECTED TO LOOK LIKE AND MAKE SURE THERE'S CASH SITTING THERE FIRST AND THEN WHAT ARE THE PROJECT THAT IS WE CAN DO AND SHOULD DO AND NEED TO DO OUT OF CASH SECOND. TRYING TO MATCH SOME OF THOSE UP WITH THEIR LIFE CYCLE. IF WE GOT LEASES ON VEHICLES OR

[02:20:01]

PURCHASES OF THAT TRUCK THAT IS A LONG STANDING ASSET AS A PIPE IS. WE LOOK AT WHAT SHOULD WE PAY OUT OF CASH AND WHAT MAKES SENSE TO ISSUE DEBT FOR AND YOU JUST HOLD THOSE IN AMBULANCE AND -- BALANCE.

WE'RE ENSURING THAT RAINY DAY FUND IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT THAT. IT'S BUILT INTO OUR FINANCIALS IF YOU LOOK AT OUR FINALS THERE'S A PRETTY HEFTY LINE OF DEPRECIATION. THAT'S A NONCASH EXPENSE EVERY YEAR. THAT'S THERE TO SORT OF MAKE SURE THAT MONEY IS BEING PUT AWAY FOR THOSE FUTURE ASSETS.

>> WHEN YOU SAY PUT AWAY, AND THIS IS IS A REMINDER TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC, YOU'RE A UTILITY.

YOU OPERATE AS A BUSINESS. SEPARATE FROM THE CITY.

DO YOU HAVE A SEPARATE FINANCIAL POLICY THAN THE CITY? OR ARE YOU ABLE TO PARK MONEY THAT YOU NEED LONG TERM TO DO THESE KINDS OF THINGS IN BETTER INVESTMENT FUNDS THAN THE CITY

DOES. >> THOSE FUNDS ARE ENTERPRISE FUNDS. BY CREATION OF THAT THEY ARE MANAGED TO BE THERE WITHIN THE ENTERPRISE FUND AND STAY WITHIN THE ENTERPRISE FUND. AS FAR AS DO WE HAVE AN INVESTMENT POLICY, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE DO.

IS IT ISN'T THAT WE COULDN'T HAVE ONE.

I HAVEN'T SEEN A SPECIFIC YOU HAVE TO PUT AWAY X.

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S A YOU HAVE TO

>> YEAH, WE BUILD THAT IN AND THAT'S WHERE I COME AND I LOOK AT EVERYTHING WITH MY TEAM, I SAY ME, IT'S A GREAT TEAM BEHIND ME AND I STAND HERE BUT THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE BEHIND ME AND ONCE WE PUT THAT TOGETHER WE PRESENT THAT TO THE ADMINISTRATION AND ADMINISTRATION HEARING WHERE WE ARE AND WHAT WE RECOMMEND AND THAT'S OUR BUDGET.

YEAH. >> LET ME CLARIFY ONE THING AS WELL ON THIS PICTURE BECAUSE THAT LINE, WHAT THAT LINE IS SHOWING YOU IS JUST OPERATING REVENUE LESS OPERATING EXPENSES AND BARS BELOW IS ARE PRINCIPLE AND INTEREST PAYMENTS.

THAT 2 MILLION DOLLAR GAP THAT YOU SEE THERE, THAT 2 MILLION DOLLAR IS MONEY THAT WOULD EITHER GET SET ASIDE AND SAY FOR THE FUTURE OR SPENT EACH YEAR ON IMPROVEMENTS THAT THE UTILITY DOES OUTSIDE OF BOND ISSUES AND 2 MILLION DOLLARS OF ANNUAL EXPENDITURE FOR UTILITIES OF THIS SIZE IS NOT A LOT OF MONEY BUT THAT'S WHAT THAT IS. IT'S NOT PROFIT.

IT'S NOT -- YOU KNOW, WE'RE CHARGING THE CUSTOMERS TOO MUCH.

IT'S TO CONTINUE TO MAINTAIN THIS.

>> I DON'T THINK ANYONE WAS SUGGESTING.

>> I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY THAT'S WHAT THAT GAP IS THAT 2 MILLION

DOLLAR FOR CASH AND REPLACEMENT. >> SORRY, SCOTT.

SO YOU MENTIONED THAT 2 MILLION DOLLARS ISN'T A LOT FOR A UTILITY OF OUR SIZE. WHAT WOULD BE -- I'M CURIOUS.

>> WELL, SO AS WE SAW TONIGHT AND WHAT I'M ASKING I PUT SOME PLACE PLACEHOLDERS, 500 FEET OR 5,000 FEET OF A WATER MAIN IS 2 MILLION DOLLARS.

YEAH. WE HAVE 5 -- WELL OVER 500 MILES OF WATER MAINS. 2 MILLION DOLLARS DOESN'T GET

YOU A LOT. >> ONE THING BECAUSE OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THIS ARE YOU INCORPORATING MORE VALVES JUST SO IF THERE IS AN ISSUE YOU'RE ABLE TO SHUT DOWN MORE LOCALIZED ON THE WATER SERVICE? MORE LOCALIZED SECTIONS THAN

LARGE SWATHS? >> ARE YOU WANTING TO BRING UP LAST AUGUST? IT IS AUGUST.

YOU WERE JUST FEELING THE NEED TO BRING THAT UP AGAIN.

>> GENERAL RULE, ARE YOU LOOKING AT THAT.

>> NO, WE DO. WE LOOK AT RESILIENCY AND WE'RE WORKING ON A WATER MODEL RIGHT NOW UPDATING IT SO THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT WATER MODELS SHOW IF WE HAVE A VALVE HERE THIS WILL EXPAND IT. THESE PROJECTS ARE VERY SPECIFIC TO SOME WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT THAT IS ARE REALLY TIED ONLY TO

THAT. >> THANK YOU.

AND I WILL REMIND THE COUNCIL THIS CAMS OUT OF UNANIMOUS POSITIVE RECOMMENDATIONS. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS?

>> I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF ORDINANCE D-2843-26 AS AMENDED.

>> SECOND. I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF ORDINANCE

D -- AD AMENDED. >> EXCELLENT.

[02:25:09]

THANK YOU, LANE. >> THANK YOU, ALL.

[13.a. First Reading of Ordinance D-2838-26; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, authorizing and approving an additional appropriation of funds from the Parks Impact Fee Fund (Fund #106) to line item 4460715 White River Corridor; Sponsors: Councilors Taylor, Aasen.]

>> ONTO PUBLIC HEARINGS. WE HAVE FIRST READING OF ORDINANCE D-2838-26, ADDITIONAL APPROPRIATE RATION OF FUNDSES FROM THE PARK FROM 106 TO LINE ITEM 4460715 WHITE RIVER CORRIDOR AND SPONSORS. GO AHEAD.

>> MOVE TO INTRODUCE. >> ALL RIGHT.

MY UNDERSTANDING IS THIS IS TAKING YOUR MONEY AND MOVING IT

SO YOU CAN USE YOUR MONEY. >> THAT IS CORRECT.

>> OKAY. AND THAT IS FOR THE WHITE RIVER

TRAIL. >> THAT IS CORRECT.

THIS WILL FUND THE DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION AND ADMINISTRATION CONTRACT FOR THE WHITE RIVER GREEN WAY SOUTH EXTENSION PHASE ONE WHICH WILL TAKE THE WHITE RIVER GREEN WAY FROM THE NEW 106 TRAIL THAT CONDUNECTS TO THE BUREAU BRIDGE AS FAR AS WE CAN GO WE'RE SUPER EXCITED TO GET THIS PROJECT AND I WILL NOTE WE RECEIVED 400,000 GRANT FROM THE INDIANA DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES TO HELP CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS THE CONSTRUCTION COUPLE OF TIMES BUT WE'RE USING IMPACT FEES ALREADY COLLECTED AND IN OUR FUND AND JUST ASKING FOR APPROPRIATION TO MOVE FORWARD

WITH THIS CONTRACT. >> WE'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 8:31. WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. THE 8:31 AND 30 SECONDS.

>> I MOVE TO SUSPEND THE RULES AND ENTER THIS INTO ACTION THIS

EVENING. >> SECOND.

>> EXCELLENT. >> MOVE FOR APPROVAL ORDINANCE

>> SECOND. >> THANK YOU.

[13.b. First Reading of Ordinance D-2842-26; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana, authorizing and approving an additional appropriation of funds from the Lane Mile Direct Distribution Fund (Fund #225) to line item 4350202 Road Maintenance/Preservation; Sponsor: Councilor Aasen.]

NEXT UP, FIRST READING OF ORDINANCE D-2842-26 AN ORDINANCE OF THE COMMON COUNCIL OF CARMEL INDIANA AMENDING CARMEL CITY CODE FROM THE LANE MILE DISTRICT DISTRIBUTION FUND TO LINE ITEM 4350202 ROAD MAINTENANCE PRESERVATION.

COUNCIL AASEN. >> THIS ORDINANCE APPROPRIATED RLATED TO CITY MAINTENANCE AND REPAIRS.

>> GOOD EVENING, COUNCIL. HIGGEN BOTHOM, STREET COMMISSIONER AND FUNDS THAT THE CITY RECEIVED DISTRIBUTED BY THE STATE OF LEFT OVER COMMUNITY CROSSINGS AND THIS IS JUST TRANSFERRING IT OUT OF THAT FUND INTO OUR FUNDS SO WE CAN SPEND

IT. >> ANY QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSION? WE'LL OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 833.

AND WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 8: 33 AND 30 SECONDS

SEEING NO ONE MOVING. >> MOVE TO SUSPEND THE RULES AND

INTERACTION THIS EVENING. >> SECOND.

>> MOVE TO APPROVE. >> SECOND.

>> THANK YOU AND THANK YOU DIRECTORS FOR STICKING AROUND.

[14.a. First Reading of Ordinance D-2843-26; An Ordinance of the Common Council of the City of Carmel, Indiana Amending Carmel City Code Chapter 8, Article 4, Section 8-44, Chapter 3, Article 2, Section 3-58, and Chapter 8, Article 4, Section 8-40; Sponsors: Councilors Aasen, Minnaar, Snyder, Taylor, Worrell.]

NEW BUSINESS, FIRST READING OF ORDINANCE D-2843-26.

ANEREDENS OF THE COMMON COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF CARMEL INDIANA AMENDING CARMEL CITY CODE CHAPTER 8 ARTICLE 4 SECTION 8-44 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 2 AND SUBSEQUENT SECTIONS AND COUNCILLORS AASEN, MINNAAR, SYDER, TAYLOR, WORRELL WERE ALL SPONSORS AND THIS IS THE MICRO MOBILITY E-MOTO ORDINANCE THAT IS IN LAND USE. OR CURRENTLY.

YEAH, I'M SORRY. GO AHEAD.

>> TO CLARIFY THE LANGUAGE THAT WE HAVE AND I KNOW WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO SEE A LOT OF CHANGES TO THE LANGUAGE WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY PRESENTED MINUS THE TWO ITEMS THAT WERE REMOVED AND

VOTED ON. >> AND A COUPLE MORE COMMENTS HAVE BEEN EDITED IN THE INTERIM. SO YES, WE INTRODUCED THE

[02:30:03]

ORDINANCE IT MIGHT SEEM LIKE A DÉJÀ VU, IT IS.

THE FORFEITURE PROVISIONS HAVE BEEN PASSED.

THE TOPIC HAS BEEN ASSIGNED TO LAND USE AND DISCUSSED ALREADY AND CERTAIN IDEAS THAT CAME OUT OF IT SO FOUR THINGS HAVE BEEN INCORPORATED INTO THIS ORDINANCE WHICH IS BRAND NEW MATERIAL.

NUMBER ONE, EXPANSION OF A PARTIAL DISMOUNT MAGAZINE FROM CITY CENTER DRIVE TO -- AND JACK BROUGHT UP AN EXCELLENT POINT.

I WALKED THE ENTIRETY OF THE BOULEVARD TO CHECK OUT THE NEW SECTION AND I ALSO NOTICED TWO SECTIONS THAT ARE SHARED BIKING LANE THIS IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE THINGS WE WILL DISCUSS AT LAND USE ON WEDNESDAY. BECAUSE LANGUAGE RIGHT NOW DOES NOT AMOUNT FOR IT. NUMBER TWO IS PROHIBITION OF OPERATION OF EBIKES WITHOUT A DISPLAY OF MANUFACTURER OR DISTRIBUTOR'S LABELS THAT REQUIREMENT WAS INTRODUCED IN 2020 BUY STATE LAW AND THERE AR SOME ISSUES WITH THAT AS WELL AND WE'LL DISCUSS WEDNESDAY AS WELL AND NUMBER THREE EXTENSION OF PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES, WHEELIES AND RIDING AND MAINTAINS LAWNS ON FOOT PATHS AND FINALLY THE EXPANSION OF WAYS TO IDENTIFY EMOTO DEVICE AND DISTINGUISH IT FROM EBIKE.

THE REST OF IT YOU'VE SEEN. >> IT'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE REDUNDANT TO MAKE SURE THIS IS CLEAR.

WE HAD A MICRO MOBILITY ORDINANCE THAT THE COUNCIL WORKED ON FOR A YEAR AND PASSED. THEN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HAD SOME CHANGES THAT THEY WANTED TO SEE WITH LEGAL FOR ENFORCEMENT THEY BROUGHT THAT TO US AND WE CARVED OUT THOSE AND APPROVED THOSE TO HELP THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

BUT WITH COMMENTS FROM MOST OF THE COUNCILLORS, LIKE COUNCILOR WORRELL AND OTHERS IT WAS QUITE OBVIOUS THAT OUR INITIAL ORDINANCE WASN'T QUITE DOING THE JOB BUT BECAUSE WE APPROVED AN AMENDMENT AT THE LAST MEETING FOR THE POLICE WE NEEDED SOMETHING TO BRING BACK TO THIS MEETING TO ACTIVELY WORK ON.

>> CORRECT. >> SO WHAT YOU SEE IN THIS ORDINANCE THAT YOU SAY NEEDS CHANGES THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S EFFECTIVELY A DRAFT ALREADY AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO BE VETTED THROUGHOUT ALL THE PROCESSES WITH COMMUNITY INPUT, LAND USE,

WORKING GROUPS AND WHAT NOT. >> THAT'S EXACTLY IT.

SO WE ASK THIS ORDINANCE TO BE SENT NOW OFFICIALLY NOT JUST FOR TOPIC BUT ORDINANCE FOR THE LAND USE COMMITTEE SO WE CAN CONTINUE A DISCUSSION THAT HAS ALREADY STARTED

>> THAT SHALL BE DONE. SO THIS WILL LAY.

>> MR. PRESIDENT. >> YES, SIR.

>> HAVE WE RULED OUT ANY PROHIBITIONS BASED ON AGE YET?

>> YES. THERE ARE CERTAIN PROHIBITIONS AND SAFETY REQUIREMENTS BASED ON AGE SPECIFICALLY FOR E-MOTO DEVICES. IT'S 15 YEARS OLD.

AND A LOT OF SAFETY REQUIREMENTS AND SOME OF THEM HAVE BEEN

EXPANDED AS WELL. >> RIGHT NOW 15 IS THE YOUNGEST.

>> FOR E-MOTO DEVICE. NOT YOUR EBIKE.

>> BUT WHETHER TO DO IT FOR THE OTHER CLASSES THERE'S NO AGE

RESTRICTION ON THOSE. >> YOU'RE SAYING THERE CAN'T BE OR YOU HAVEN'T DONE THE LEGAL RESEARCH TO SEE IF THAT'S A

POSSIBILITY. >> I'LL BE HONEST WITH YOU, I

HAVE NOT LOOKED INTO IT. >> THAT'S FINE.

>> I WOULD ENCOURAGE US TO LOOK INTO THAT.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT AGE YOU PUT IT BUT THERE ARE -- LIKE I SAID, A KID WHO'S 8 YEARS OLD OPERATING SOME OF THESE VEHICLES VERY UNSAFE FOR THAT AGE. I THINK THAT THERE'S OBVIOUSLY I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU DRAW THE LINE BUT I THINK THE LINE DOES NEED TO BE DRAWN AND FOR THE CHILDREN'S SAFETY THERE'S JUST SOME DEVICES EVEN THE SLOWER EBIKES THAT JUST REALLY FOR

YOUNGER AGES ARE NOT SAFE. >> AND WE HAVE HELD THOSE DISCUSSIONS THROUGHOUT AND DR. JOSHI HAS BEEN A PROPONENT OF THIS FROM THE VERY, VERY GET GO AND I'M SURE THE DISCUSSIONS

WILL CONTINUE. >> AND WE DO NEED AND WE ARE CONTINUING TO HAVE THEM AS WE SAID WE DID HAVE THEM RIGHT FROM THE BEGINS AND THE AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS HAS WORKED VERY HARD ON SAFETY REGULATIONS AND SOME OF THIS IS STATE S STATUTE DRIVEN AND THAT IS AN UNFORTUNATE STATE OF THE STATE.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE ACADEMY WILL CONTINUE TO ADVOCATE FOR AND PUSH FOR AND I AGREE WITH YOU ADAM IF YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO THE TRAUMATIC BRAIN INJURY WARD AT HOSPITAL I

[02:35:03]

ENCOURAGE YOU TO GO AND YOUR LIFE WILL BE CHANGED FOREVER.

>> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL RIGHT.

>> PRESIDENT SNYDER. WOULD YOU NEED TO INTRODUCE THE

ORDINANCE? >> IT WOULDN'T BE A MEETING IF I --

[LAUGHTER]. >> IT'S BEEN INTRODUCED AND SENT TO LAND USE. ALL RIGHT.

ADD ONS, THERE ARE NONE. ANY OTHER DR OR EXCUSE ME, OTHER

[16.a. Acknowledgement of Changes to Allocation of Funds and Estimated Project Costs - 2024 Carmel Redevelopment Authority Lease Rental Bonds (Level 1 Priority Projects)]

BUSINESS? WE HAVE THE ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF CHANGES TO ALLOCATION OF FUNDS AND ESTIMATED PROJECT COSTS.

FROM THE 2024 INFRASTRUCTURE BOND.

DO WE DO -- IS THERE ACTION ON THE ACKNOWLEDGMENT?

>> WE RECOMMEND THAT YOU ACKNOWLEDGE IT FOR A VOTE AND ONE, I HAVE TO SAY THAT THERE'S ONE EDITION THAT WE JUST NEED TO PUT IT ON RECORD THAT FOR SPECIFICALLY FOR STATION 47, LINE ITEM, WE WOULD HAVE TO COMPLY WITH INDIANA CODE 6-1.1-20 BECAUSE UNFORTUNATELY RELOCATION OF FUNDS PUTS IT INTO A CONTROLLED PROJECT CATEGORY WHICH REQUIRES TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS AND THE PERIOD OF 30 DAYS.

WE CAN APPROVE IT TODAY AND WE WILL START WORKING WITH BOND COUNCIL ON THAT IT'S A DIFFERENT TYPES OF BOND IT'S A PROPERTY TAX SUPPORTED BOND SO IT HAS A DIFFERENT STRUCTURE THAN THE BOND SUGGEST APPROVE. WE WILL BRING IT TO YOU IN THE NEXT COUNCIL MEETING OR SO TO COMPLY WITH THAT BUT WE CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF THOSE THREE REORGANIZATIONS OF

FUNDS. >> MOVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE.

>> SECOND. >> SILLY QUESTION, SERGEI.

WHAT DOES NOT ACKNOWLEDGING IT DO?

>> TECHNICALLY IT WOULDN'T CHANGE THE REORGANIZATION OF

FUNDS. >> I GUESS I JUST I WISH WE'D HAD MORE CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS BEFORE WE WENT THROUGH AND DID IT. SO THAT HAS BEEN ACKNOWLEDGED ALTHOUGH I GUESS I'M NOT ACKNOWLEDGING IT.

[17. ANNOUNCEMENTS]

ANNOUNCEMENTS. >> THIS IS A LITTLE FAR IN ADVANCE BUT I WANT TO GIVE ENOUGH TIME FOR EVERYBODY TO KNOW ABOUT IT EVEN MY FELLOW COUNCILLORS, I WAS CONTACTED BY A NEIGHBOR IN THE LEGACY WHO WANTS TO HAVE A MICRO MOBILITY EDUCATION EVENING SO I HAVE SCHEDULED IT WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, WITH THE HELP OF MY AD-LARGE COUNCILLORS AND IT IS ON AUGUST 27TH, 6 P.M. AT WILL PHONG PAVILION AT FOUNDER'S PARK. EVERYONE IS WELCOME TO COME.

>> THANK YOU. NOTHING ELSE? WE WILL

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.

Aug 03, 2026 City Council Meeting

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